Philip Roth has died • Hacker News Board

Re: Philip Roth has died

#31

Post by pervycreeper » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:39 PM UTC

cylinder wrote: post #11

I just learnt about him and ordered my first book of his last night. Odd.

>I just learnt about him and ordered my first book of his last night. Odd.

No odder than any of the billions of cases of people who hadn't just learned about him and ordered their first book of his last night, though.

Edit: this is the same fallacy behind a good portion of claims of "miracles" and "supernatural" phenomena, and other apparent coincidences. If no one bought his book on the night before he died, that would be odd. Not sure why all the hate.

Re: Philip Roth has died

#32

Post by chengiz » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:40 PM UTC

mratzloff wrote: post #24

moonka wrote: post #2

His book "Plot Against America" helped to change my worldview. It was the first time I thought about the fact that it was not a foregone conclusion that America is a country that hadn't fallen to fascism in the mid 20th century, and led to me start reading history with a more critical eye. After that I realized just how much history is comprised of shades of grey rather than right and wrong.

This is tangential, but in 1933 major bankers, including JP Morgan, allegedly (and, in my mind, likely) plotted a fascist coup via a veterans' organization. The summer before, 17,000 veterans, most in their 30s, had gathered to violently demand payment of their WWI bonuses. The bankers plotted to foment and channel this anger to overthrow FDR, whom they despised. They failed in the early stages thanks to a retired ma…

This is a conspiracy theory. In all likelihood it was just a few fascist businessmen concocting dream scenarios.

Reactions [1]:

"No doubt, MacGuire did have some wild scheme in mind, though the gap between contemplation and execution was considerable, and it can hardly be supposed that the Republic was in much danger"

"At their core, the accusations probably consisted of a mixture of actual attempts at influence peddling by a small core of financiers with ties to veterans organizations and the self-serving accusations of Butler against the enemies of his pacifist and populist causes."

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot#Later_reactions

Re: Philip Roth has died

#33

Post by selimthegrim » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:41 PM UTC

westoncb wrote: post #9

I started reading Roth a couple months ago as part of a project to learn how to write better fiction (I also chose Philip K. Dick at the same time for some reason...). I partly chose Roth after seeing by how much he outnumbered any other writer in terms of entries for best 100 novels of the 20th century (I don't remember who published the list, but it was something pretty credible, and he had 6 entries on there IIRC)…

The only book I read of his was Patrimony, about his relationship with his declining father, which I really enjoyed.

Re: Philip Roth has died

#34

Post by the_af » Wed, May 23, 2018, 1:53 PM UTC

westoncb wrote: post #9

I started reading Roth a couple months ago as part of a project to learn how to write better fiction (I also chose Philip K. Dick at the same time for some reason...). I partly chose Roth after seeing by how much he outnumbered any other writer in terms of entries for best 100 novels of the 20th century (I don't remember who published the list, but it was something pretty credible, and he had 6 entries on there IIRC)…

I love "Goodbye, Columbus" and its companion short stories, which I re-read from time to time. I think my favorite, aside from the titular story, is "The Conversion of the Jews".

I think Philip Roth's stories have just the right mix of American life, Jewishness and simply universal middle class life experiences, which is why I -- a non-practicing, atheist Jew not in touch with his heritage, and who's not from the US -- can enjoy them.

Re: Philip Roth has died

#35

Post by mhall12 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 2:15 PM UTC

HelloNurse wrote: post #17

dannylandau wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've read only 3 1/2 of his books: Operation Shylock, Plot against America, Portnoys complaint: and part of American Pastoral -- which I had trouble getting through. I wonder if others found it too dense? Otherwise, the above 3 books are really great!

Read all of American Pastoral. After the sad and slightly less interesting middle section, the plot flares up right at the end, as a long prepared payoff.

So much subtext in that book.

Re: Philip Roth has died

#36

Post by dang » Wed, May 23, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

Andre_Wanglin wrote: post #20

pavlov wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really your takeaway from Philip Roth’s work? Maybe you were reading David Lee Roth by accident?

No, it is my reaction to the commenter's reaction to this article about Philip Roth's death.

Please don't post ideological rants, or other unsubstantive comments, to HN.

Re: Philip Roth has died

#37

Post by IloveHN84 » Wed, May 23, 2018, 2:42 PM UTC

Never heard of him before this news..I imagine he wrote good things

Re: Philip Roth has died

#38

Post by sorokod » Wed, May 23, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

The Guardian: Readers’ memories and tributes

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/may/23/at-each-book-i...

Re: Philip Roth has died

#39

Post by cafard » Wed, May 23, 2018, 2:48 PM UTC

westoncb wrote: post #9

I started reading Roth a couple months ago as part of a project to learn how to write better fiction (I also chose Philip K. Dick at the same time for some reason...). I partly chose Roth after seeing by how much he outnumbered any other writer in terms of entries for best 100 novels of the 20th century (I don't remember who published the list, but it was something pretty credible, and he had 6 entries on there IIRC)…

Undoubtedly you have identified some of the mainstays of his writing. You might enjoy Zuckerman Unbound as a novella (or is it a novel) about celebrity and identity, and I suppose reflecting his experience of the effects of publishing Portnoy's Complaint.

Re: Philip Roth has died

#40

Post by mratzloff » Wed, May 23, 2018, 2:57 PM UTC

chengiz wrote: post #32

mratzloff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is tangential, but in 1933 major bankers, including JP Morgan, allegedly (and, in my mind, likely) plotted a fascist coup via a veterans' organization. The summer before, 17,000 veterans, most in their 30s, had gathered to violently demand payment of their WWI bonuses. The bankers plotted to foment and channel this anger to overthrow FDR, whom they despised. They failed in the early stages thanks to a retired ma…

This is a conspiracy theory. In all likelihood it was just a few fascist businessmen concocting dream scenarios. Reactions [1]: "No doubt, MacGuire did have some wild scheme in mind, though the gap between contemplation and execution was considerable, and it can hardly be supposed that the Republic was in much danger" "At their core, the accusations probably consisted of a mixture of actual attempts at influence pedd…

The full extent of the plot is unclear, but that there was some kind of plot is certain. Many financial and business leaders of the time were rumored to be fascists like Lindbergh.[1]

Of course, if you compare Butler's handler to the strange cast of characters in the history of widely-known American political plots (Watergate, Iran-Contra, etc.), truth is often stranger than fiction.

[1] William Dodd, the U.S. Ambassador to Germany, in a letter to FDR (from the same link above):

"A clique of U.S. industrialists is hell-bent to bring a fascist state to supplant our democratic government and is working closely with the fascist regime in Germany and Italy. I have had plenty of opportunity in my post in Berlin to witness how close some of our American ruling families are to the Nazi regime. ... A prominent executive of one of the largest corporations, told me point blank that he would be ready to take definite action to bring fascism into America if President Roosevelt continued his progressive policies. Certain American industrialists had a great deal to do with bringing fascist regimes into being in both Germany and Italy. They extended aid to help Fascism occupy the seat of power, and they are helping to keep it there. Propagandists for fascist groups try to dismiss the fascist scare. We should be aware of the symptoms. When industrialists ignore laws designed for social and economic progress they will seek recourse to a fascist state when the institutions of our government compel them to comply with the provisions."