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Why the Luddites Matter

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Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#31

Post by flyinghamster »

cheschire wrote: post #24

Try explaining to people that you’re a programmer who doesn’t own a cell phone, and count the seconds till this term gets raised. It’s disheartening to watch our society practically force others through attempted shaming to follow the acceptable path. I admit feebly that I bought a cell phone because the infotainment system in my car is garbage, and that seems to silence the worst of it, but I feel it’s going against…

I'm somewhere in between - I do have a smartphone (and even use some location-based services), but I'm pretty picky about what apps I'll use on mine. Not to mention, I only use Gmail for things directly related to the Play Store.

I've been a tech/gadget freak for pretty much all of my life, but I'm really starting to utterly hate the Internet of Shit. If I'm going to run a surveillance camera, I'd much rather build a Raspberry Pi-based system than buy a commercial one. I damn well DON'T want my car connected to the internet - if I want internet in the car, my phone will do just fine. When I bought a TV about a year and a half ago, I made sure that the set itself was dumb as a rock [0]; any "smarts" get plugged into HDMI ports.

[0] If I looked for a TV today, I might not even have that option. :(

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#32

Post by Finnucane »

simula67 wrote: post #4

> Frankly, the Luddites wanted to be able to feed their children, they didn’t want to be driven into poverty, and they thought those things were more important than the factory owners becoming wealthier and more powerful The effect of industrial revolution was not just factory owners being wealthier or more powerful. It raised the workers wages and increased living standards for everyone

Everyone makes a living wage from their work?

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#33

Post by jacquesm »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #27
cheschire wrote: post #24

Try explaining to people that you’re a programmer who doesn’t own a cell phone, and count the seconds till this term gets raised. It’s disheartening to watch our society practically force others through attempted shaming to follow the acceptable path. I admit feebly that I bought a cell phone because the infotainment system in my car is garbage, and that seems to silence the worst of it, but I feel it’s going against…

Have you written about your motivations or experience without a cell phone? I've been considering getting rid of mine (and a local friend switched to a dumb phone[0]) but RMS is the first person that comes to mind when I think of a programmer without a cell phone. [0]: http://jordancrane.me/2018/04/16/the-dumbphone-chronicles/

I'm a bit like your friend, and I add one more twist, I have my phone off quite frequently. Not switched to silence, just off. I don't need to be reachable at any time of day or night.

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#34

Post by coldtea »

simula67 wrote: post #4

> Frankly, the Luddites wanted to be able to feed their children, they didn’t want to be driven into poverty, and they thought those things were more important than the factory owners becoming wealthier and more powerful The effect of industrial revolution was not just factory owners being wealthier or more powerful. It raised the workers wages and increased living standards for everyone

>The effect of industrial revolution was not just factory owners being wealthier or more powerful. It raised the workers wages and increased living standards for everyone

Which doesn't matter much when you and your family starves -- as their families did, and workers fucked over by globalization and automation do.

One could shrug it off as "the cost of progress", but that's a luxury one has only when they are among those benefiting from it.

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#35

Post by __s »

ChristianBundy wrote: post #27
cheschire wrote: post #24

Try explaining to people that you’re a programmer who doesn’t own a cell phone, and count the seconds till this term gets raised. It’s disheartening to watch our society practically force others through attempted shaming to follow the acceptable path. I admit feebly that I bought a cell phone because the infotainment system in my car is garbage, and that seems to silence the worst of it, but I feel it’s going against…

Have you written about your motivations or experience without a cell phone? I've been considering getting rid of mine (and a local friend switched to a dumb phone[0]) but RMS is the first person that comes to mind when I think of a programmer without a cell phone. [0]: http://jordancrane.me/2018/04/16/the-dumbphone-chronicles/

I'm also a programmar without a phone or cell. No TV either. I beat people to the punch & laugh about being a technoluddite. Goes along with my at-home development environment being a linux tty & staying off Facebook. Have a nice century old home. My boss is thinking of buying me a cell. I tend towards a lot of seemingly contradictory behavior: philosophically I'm somewhat of a stoic/hedonist hybrid

I think programmers are more likely to opt out of things like cell phones. More likely to be technically competent enough to be work around challenges of going with simplicity & more likely to want that simplicity. Also more likely to see behind the curtain of this post privacy world

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#36

Post by analog31 »

cheschire wrote: post #24

Try explaining to people that you’re a programmer who doesn’t own a cell phone, and count the seconds till this term gets raised. It’s disheartening to watch our society practically force others through attempted shaming to follow the acceptable path. I admit feebly that I bought a cell phone because the infotainment system in my car is garbage, and that seems to silence the worst of it, but I feel it’s going against…

I wear the label proudly. ;-)

When people call me a Luddite, as they invariably do, I tell them (my opinion) that the Luddites weren't anti-technology per se, but concerned about the effect of technology on society.

Now, I do happen to own a cell phone, but mentioning its cost (40 bucks plus 10 bucks a month) is usually sufficient to earn me the Luddite tag.

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#37

Post by a1369209993 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #6
simula67 wrote: post #4

> Frankly, the Luddites wanted to be able to feed their children, they didn’t want to be driven into poverty, and they thought those things were more important than the factory owners becoming wealthier and more powerful The effect of industrial revolution was not just factory owners being wealthier or more powerful. It raised the workers wages and increased living standards for everyone

Over time, and over lots of fighting. It didn't look like it when it's your boss that started to suppress your wages thanks to a new machine. Yes, the industrial revolution enabled increased wages and living standards. But for them to actually happen, and trickle down to workers, people had to fight hard. The modern working standards are literally written in tears and blood of our forefathers.

Technically, (somewhat) increased living standards are a inevitable consequence of significant production improvements in a not-completely-disfunctional economy. That doesn't really help in the short term though.

Also:

> literally written in tears and blood

figuratively; tears and blood make shit writing materials.

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#38

Post by crazydoggers »

The problem I have with the Luddites was their assumption that they were entitled to their way of life. It’s a similar refrain heard today... coal miners want more protection so they can continue to live and work in cole mining towns. They just want to feed their children... something we can all related to. But if times change, then you have to change with then. You don’t get to hold the rest of society hostage... either thru slowing tech progress via violence.. or continuing to support an industry that is destroying the planet.

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#39

Post by dbasedweeb »

crazydoggers wrote: post #38

The problem I have with the Luddites was their assumption that they were entitled to their way of life. It’s a similar refrain heard today... coal miners want more protection so they can continue to live and work in cole mining towns. They just want to feed their children... something we can all related to. But if times change, then you have to change with then. You don’t get to hold the rest of society hostage... ei…

Can the average coal miner realistically move on with the times, or are you just asking them to die in penury? Maybe when we phase out a whole way of life for the greater good, we need to take care of the people left behind. If not, then of course they’ll fight tooth and nail, and we deserve it for expecting them to just bed over and take it for everyone’s benefit, but their’s.

Re: Why the Luddites Matter

#40

Post by oliv__ »

crazydoggers wrote: post #38

The problem I have with the Luddites was their assumption that they were entitled to their way of life. It’s a similar refrain heard today... coal miners want more protection so they can continue to live and work in cole mining towns. They just want to feed their children... something we can all related to. But if times change, then you have to change with then. You don’t get to hold the rest of society hostage... ei…

I feel like you are unintentionally making the very point of this article: the Luddites weren't simply "entitled" to their craft, they were entitled to their ability to feed their children and exist in their society. Which I think every human being is very much entitled to. Furthermore, the article specifically insists that they weren't against all technology but instead this particular technology and its use and impact on their society (lower wages etc...).

When you say "You don’t get to hold the rest of society hostage...", this just sounds like another way of calling anyone who disagrees with your thesis a Luddite, and to end the conversation. Who said the "rest of society" agrees with you in the first place?

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