The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality • Hacker News Board

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#31

Post by mustacheemperor » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:31 AM UTC

jeremyt wrote: post #16

I am firmly opposed to "Net Neutrality". Literally everything the government regulates becomes a mess and a boondoggle. Health care, housing, and pensions all the way down to city building codes (I have a friend who needs to replace her windows in San Francisco, and the city government has decreed that they can only use wooden frame windows because of the aesthetics, even though they are more than twice as expensive)…

I don't think the FDA has turned healthcare into a boondoggle, especially since incidents like Thalidomide have revealed why the pharma industry must follow a compliance framework for R&D.

I don't think the USDA has turned agriculture or consumer food into a boondoggle. The Jungle is still a gripping read today, because the conditions of unregulated meatpacking factories were unbelievably grotesque, beyond the absolute worst of contemporary hidden camera food industry scandals.

I don't think the EPA has turned the environment into a boondoggle. Acid rain was an incredibly serious problem in the 1980s that's pretty much behind us today, because regulation of sulfur dioxide emissions in the clean air act incenticized companies to lower their emissions.[0]

[0]https://www.edf.org/approach/markets/acid-rain

Other commenters have accurately pointed out the more directly disagreeable parts of your post, but you have absolutely not provided an accurate representation of the government's historical role in regulated markets. I believe it is more possible to vote in a competent government if you are willing to accept the challenge that it is possible for one to exist.

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#32

Post by rhcom2 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 5:34 AM UTC

craftyguy wrote: post #2

> Reddit, Tumblr, Etsy and other sites have put up Red Alert banners as part of a day of action to drive petitions in support of the resolution. I get the feeling that these sites are just 'preaching to the choir' (i.e. their customers already support these things, and most likely have let their 'representative' know). Is anyone doing anything to give the 50 senators who are against this a taste of what is to come? I…

Not to introduce flame bait but one of the reasons the NRA is powerful is the ability to quickly motivate their very vocal members.

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#33

Post by glenndebacker » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:05 AM UTC

craftyguy wrote: post #2

> Reddit, Tumblr, Etsy and other sites have put up Red Alert banners as part of a day of action to drive petitions in support of the resolution. I get the feeling that these sites are just 'preaching to the choir' (i.e. their customers already support these things, and most likely have let their 'representative' know). Is anyone doing anything to give the 50 senators who are against this a taste of what is to come? I…

Maybe they can crowdfund ? If I read the news and see the prices to get "insights", it may be doable.

Then again I find it troubling how easy politicians are getting bought these days while in essence it's not that hard to govern with all the people in mind instead of them self. But I may be very naive in this regards.

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#34

Post by mch82 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:06 AM UTC

rhcom2 wrote: post #32

craftyguy wrote: post #2

> Reddit, Tumblr, Etsy and other sites have put up Red Alert banners as part of a day of action to drive petitions in support of the resolution. I get the feeling that these sites are just 'preaching to the choir' (i.e. their customers already support these things, and most likely have let their 'representative' know). Is anyone doing anything to give the 50 senators who are against this a taste of what is to come? I…

Not to introduce flame bait but one of the reasons the NRA is powerful is the ability to quickly motivate their very vocal members.

It would be amazing if someone could figure out a way to measure constituent opinion that didn't involve people showing up at or calling in to an office.

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#35

Post by mch82 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:10 AM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #15

jordigh wrote: post #6

I still can't believe that the movement to kill net neutrality was (is?) called "restoring internet freedom". I guess it's a shortening of "restoring internet service providers' freedom"? But the longer form isn't as catchy.

Well, it is about "restoring internet freedom". It's just that, except in a few large cities, Americans have very little choice about ISP. So there's no way for ISPs to compete for users who care about net neutrality. Edit: Actually, we'd have even more freedom with an Internet version of the FERC rule for open access to electrical transmission lines.[0] > The legal and policy cornerstone of these rules is to remedy…

What's your definition of freedom?

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#36

Post by mch82 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:20 AM UTC

jeremyt wrote: post #21

duxup wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"Net Neutrality" is nothing more than an Orwellian named, amorphous and vague idea that nobody really knows what it means. Do you really think that? Do you really think nobody knows what it means? The previous policy... was it words someone might understand... or not?

I don't believe that anyone here, without looking it up, could explain what exactly "net neutrality" means, without falling back on talking points and vague aspirational language, rather than what actually is written in the regulations. For starters, the FCC did an end run around Congress because they couldn't get Congress to pass it, so they had to take previous regulations intended for telephone service and cram a…

How is internet traffic meaningfully different from phone network traffic? It's all signals carrying data over transmission cables...

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#37

Post by mch82 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:24 AM UTC

jeremyt wrote: post #19

jdpigeon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, man. You cherry-pick some examples of government inefficiency, but our society benefits greatly from all the rules that the government enforces in order to benefit citizens (e.g. the FDA approving new food products).

First of all, the government has its hands in almost everything, so any list small enough to fit into a hacker news comment is necessarily going to be "cherry picked". I'm not one of those people who thinks we don't need any regulations. I think they need to be a last-resort when everything else has been tried. Everything else has not been tried here. I mean, 5G and the SpaceX satellite internet plan are right around…

What about the internet seems broken to you that loss of net neutrality will fix?

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#38

Post by mirimir » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:28 AM UTC

mch82 wrote: post #35

mirimir wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it is about "restoring internet freedom". It's just that, except in a few large cities, Americans have very little choice about ISP. So there's no way for ISPs to compete for users who care about net neutrality. Edit: Actually, we'd have even more freedom with an Internet version of the FERC rule for open access to electrical transmission lines.[0] > The legal and policy cornerstone of these rules is to remedy…

What's your definition of freedom?

Being unconstrained.

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#39

Post by nercht12 » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:34 AM UTC

ryanpcmcquen wrote: post #25

I find it funny that some people still see Net Neutrality as 'government controlling the internet'. They should take a look at FOSTA if they want to know what government controlling the internet really looks like.

It is government controlling the internet. It's the extent and who that is different. In this case, it's only forcing a fair playing field. Kinda like highways being public vs. toll instead of telling you what cars you are and are not allowed to drive. I'd like a "free" internet, but I still have to admit it's going to cost someone else's "freedom".

Re: The Senate has forced a vote to restore net neutrality

#40

Post by PhasmaFelis » Thu, May 10, 2018, 6:36 AM UTC

mch82 wrote: post #34

rhcom2 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to introduce flame bait but one of the reasons the NRA is powerful is the ability to quickly motivate their very vocal members.

It would be amazing if someone could figure out a way to measure constituent opinion that didn't involve people showing up at or calling in to an office.

Well, that's kind of the thing. Everyone's willing to kill and die for their beliefs on the internet; a lot fewer will actually campaign and canvas and march and vote for their beliefs. The inconvenience of calling or mailing your politician tells them that you have passed a rock bottom threshold of willingness to act, and might conceivably have an effect on their vote totals next election.