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Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

krebsonsecurity.com

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Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#31

Post by nkozyra »

convolvatron wrote: post #18
gascan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I missing something here? Paying cash doesn't prevent the opening of fraudulent lines of credit in your name. Equifax et al don't particularly care if you pay cash, they have some form of record on you either way.

if you use cash exclusively, then you have no credit to exploit. equifax knows about me, but no one will give me a loan.

> equifax knows about me, but no one will give me a loan. reply

While that should be the case, unfortunately, that's not true. And it may make you less likely to notice if someone does in your name.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#32

Post by njarboe »

pishpash wrote: post #24
twoodfin wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this framing would gain more currency, since it seems to me to accurately capture the problem: Creditors are (presumably unknowingly, but also largely uncaringly) lying when they report defaults against the wrong debtors. When Equifax repeats those lies to other potential creditors, they're also failing, but at root the misinformation originates with the creditor who failed to properly authenticate their custo…

There are laws against such "lying" but the burden of proof is on the victim as a practical matter [+], so of course creditors don't care when they make mistakes. [+] Technically the burden of proof is on the creditor but victim has to continue to reach out to insist on such proof. If they do not expend extraordinary efforts to do so the record is against them.

I believe the "lying" in this case is civil not criminal matter. As much as I dislike making civil matters criminal (like in copyright cases), I would support that here.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#33

Post by kxyvr »

Since I was having a hard time finding the link in the article. Here's the page to add a NCTUE security freeze:

https://www.nctue.com/consumers

Here are the pages for adding security freezes to the other big four agencies:

https://www.freeze.equifax.com/Freeze/jsp/SFF_PersonalIDInfo...

https://freeze.transunion.com/sf/securityFreeze/landingPage....

https://www.experian.com/freeze/center.html

https://www.innovis.com/securityFreeze/index

Most people don't know about Innovis, which was mentioned in the article. That said, I've never run into a company where I've needed to lift an Innovis freeze. Anyway, I agree that it's tiring to constantly track which data brokers allow (are required to) adding a security freeze. In my opinion, better legislation is needed to curb this activity and data brokers in general.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#34

Post by SilasX »

reaperducer wrote: post #5

Bottom line: Whenever possible, wherever possible, pay cash. I used to laugh at my father-in-law whom I once considered to be a conspiracy theory whackjob with his off-the-grid lifestyle. As more and more of his "crazy" insights turn into New York Times headlines, I'm starting to think he was ahead of the curve.

You still need to get a credit card at some point, preferably early on, or else you may have to go through what I did: where annualcreditreport.com etc will swear up and down that you have a 740+ score but no one wants to touch you [1] because you have no history and appear as subprime.

[1] even apartments. And utilities will require an additional deposit.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#35

Post by Dirlewanger »

patja wrote: post #30
rcthompson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will it ever happen? When the current generation of children reaches office-holding age, a majority of them may understand internet culture , but I don't think a significant fraction will ever understand the internet in a technical sense.

This reminds me of the scifi first contact novel "Blindsight", which while not the best writing is chock full of intriguing concepts, one of which is the role of the "synthesist": a career where your job is to act just as a communications bridge between those who are so highly technically specialized (including cybernetic body modifications) that they are effectively incapable of communicating to managers and governm…

That's basically the description of a "Business Analyst". Also seen in Office Space: "I deliver the specs to the developers".

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#36

Post by ThrustVectoring »

njarboe wrote: post #9
Shivetya wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather anyone opening a line of credit be required to obtain proof of acceptance by the person named on the account and until doing so they are 100% liable for all debts incurred. How this is defined will require regulation. The burden is increased at any time a request is made outside of the state and city of residence

This is already the law. You are not responsible to pay debts incurred by another person. The problem is when the bank or company that gave credit to someone else that used your identity information is allowed to lie to a credit bureau about the fact that it was you who defaulted on the debt. Otherwise you could just tell the bank, "Pound sand stranger, I never borrowed any money from you. Stop bugging me or I'll get…

I'd be happy with making small-claims-court cases against banks that let someone borrow money in your name. Because of their negligence you've had to spend time and money clearing things up with credit bureaus etc.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#37

Post by cesarb »

jessaustin wrote: post #14
njarboe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is already the law. You are not responsible to pay debts incurred by another person. The problem is when the bank or company that gave credit to someone else that used your identity information is allowed to lie to a credit bureau about the fact that it was you who defaulted on the debt. Otherwise you could just tell the bank, "Pound sand stranger, I never borrowed any money from you. Stop bugging me or I'll get…

These proposed "large fines" would still require regular people to deal with putative creditors and occasionally to defend themselves in court. Structural changes are required to make the system as it actually functions more equitable to humans. What are structural changes? For instance, prior to enforcing a debt the law could require the production of an authenticated video recording of the debtor clearly stating, "…

> These proposed "large fines" would still require regular people to deal with putative creditors and occasionally to defend themselves in court.

Wouldn't it be the opposite? It would be the creditors which would have to defend themselves in court. In my country, moral damages are nearly guaranteed in these cases, and the burden of proof is on the creditors to prove the debt is valid.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#38

Post by [deleted] »

lisper wrote: post #17
reaperducer wrote: post #5

Bottom line: Whenever possible, wherever possible, pay cash. I used to laugh at my father-in-law whom I once considered to be a conspiracy theory whackjob with his off-the-grid lifestyle. As more and more of his "crazy" insights turn into New York Times headlines, I'm starting to think he was ahead of the curve.

A much more effective strategy than paying cash is to run your own email server (making sure that it is secure, of course). Email is one of the most common attack vectors, but most scammers are going to target the big providers. Attacking an individual server is not going to be worth the bother.

[deleted]

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#39

Post by TechieKid »

PotionSeller wrote: post #29

I absolutely hate our entire credit system, the lazy way it handles our sensitive info, and the eagerness to extend credit to anyone without scrutiny of their identity. Big incoherent rant incoming: In 2016 someone stole my identity and in about a 1 month period took out tens of credit cards and new bank accounts and phone account which they immediately over drafted. They somehow managed to change the address in my c…

The answer is registered mail, return receipt requested, and a complaint with the CFPB, although how on-the-ball that agency will be since the new administrator was appointed is YMMV.

Re: Think You’ve Got Your Credit Freezes Covered? Think Again

#40

Post by [deleted] »

gascan wrote: post #11
reaperducer wrote: post #5

Bottom line: Whenever possible, wherever possible, pay cash. I used to laugh at my father-in-law whom I once considered to be a conspiracy theory whackjob with his off-the-grid lifestyle. As more and more of his "crazy" insights turn into New York Times headlines, I'm starting to think he was ahead of the curve.

Am I missing something here? Paying cash doesn't prevent the opening of fraudulent lines of credit in your name. Equifax et al don't particularly care if you pay cash, they have some form of record on you either way.

[deleted]
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