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OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

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Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#31

Post by cimmanom »

J-dawg wrote: post #28
speeder wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seemly after the canadian guy killed people with a van, a witchunt for Involuntary Celibates started... For example: https://twitter.com/ekp/status/991817194987114496

Agh, that's scary. What is she expecting them to do about it? Is she asking them to fire people for being sexually unattractive?

I think there's a distinction to be made between "people who are unable to find sexual partners" and "people who self-identify with and participate in communities that spew hatred and encourage violence over the fact that they can't find sexual partners".

Sort of like the difference between "white people" and "white supremacists". Except that currently we don't have separate (reasonably brief) terms for the above categories.

There's nothing wrong with having employees who are unattractive / can't find sexual partners, and I agree that that would be just as ridiculous a criterion to fire someone over as being caucasian. However, if you have people in your company who are filled with vitriol or considering violence (be it because they hate women who won't sleep with them or because they hate people with a different skin color), that's a problem waiting to happen.

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#32

Post by dingaling »

himom wrote: post #21

Why would anyone with integrity and self-respect subject themselves to flawed, unnatural and zero investment world that are dating apps? Can you imagine how lazy, distracted and confused are the users of these apps are in real life? Just stick to the real-world, screen the square root of as many people as you could ever meet in your remaining life-expectancy and pick the best one that comes along next. No Paradox of…

> and pick the best one that comes along next

The point is that for a set of people there's no-one coming along next. Hence they turn to dating sites to try to make connections.

I grew up in the 1980s and 90s. There were no dating apps, just classified 'want to meets' in the newspaper and they were expensive and fruitless. I didn't have a first date until I was 30, it took that long to find someone who was interested.

I wouldn't lecture anyone today about anything they can ethically & legally do to avoid that long sentence of loneliness. Even if they don't find a life partner, just getting one or two dates can be a huge boost to esteem.

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#33

Post by GCU-Empiricist »

vinceguidry wrote: post #24
Avamander wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A normative solution is better than no solution. Please explain how. I think it's literally the worst idea to go poking people already on the edge with their hate and misery.

No solution means not telling these people at all that their ideas aren't going to get them anywhere and letting them fester in their hatred. I agree that it could be done without the vitriol. Not entirely sure how, but I agree in theory that it's possible. But objectively speaking, the incel viewpoint is more caustic than the common reaction to it. I'm not saying that people who identify as incels deserve it, but th…

>Social cohesion is far more important than both your obstinacy and your problems, and if you persist, we will burn your ass at the stake. It's ugly, it's sad, we wish we didn't have to do it, but it reflects the reality of society.

Wow, How do I make sure I never interact with your "society"? To me this attitude is strait out of Orwell and Huxley?

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#34

Post by J-dawg »

DanBC wrote: post #30
J-dawg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agh, that's scary. What is she expecting them to do about it? Is she asking them to fire people for being sexually unattractive?

Incel doesn't mean "someone who is unable to have sex". We need to have some esympathy and empathy for that group, and many places are trying to fix lonliness. This group may benefit from legalisation of sex work. Pao is not talking about this group. Incel means "someone who is a member of a group who have a pathological hatred of women and men who have sex with women, who think that they have a right to demand sex,…

Incel was a label that these people gave to themselves, simply meaning "involuntarily celibate".

Sure these communities are incredibly toxic, but I don't think it's fair to say that every member of them has all of the beliefs you describe. Most of these people are probably mentally ill, they need compassion and empathy, not to be purged from society.

How much more bitter and angry are they going to be if they start to feel like they're also excluded from having a job?

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#35

Post by vinceguidry »

GCU-Empiricist wrote: post #33
vinceguidry wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No solution means not telling these people at all that their ideas aren't going to get them anywhere and letting them fester in their hatred. I agree that it could be done without the vitriol. Not entirely sure how, but I agree in theory that it's possible. But objectively speaking, the incel viewpoint is more caustic than the common reaction to it. I'm not saying that people who identify as incels deserve it, but th…

>Social cohesion is far more important than both your obstinacy and your problems, and if you persist, we will burn your ass at the stake. It's ugly, it's sad, we wish we didn't have to do it, but it reflects the reality of society. Wow, How do I make sure I never interact with your "society"? To me this attitude is strait out of Orwell and Huxley?

You realize I didn't invent society, right? And never need interact with it if you don't preach heresy.

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#36

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

J-dawg wrote: post #25
whalesalad wrote: post #12

I don't think this has anything to do with the incel movement. It was a risky post to begin with. This tweet is making a lot of assumptions. Flagging as no good discussion can come from this post on HN.

> Flagging as no good discussion can come from this ..in your opinion. Why do you feel the need to silence that discussion? I get that HN is a forum with its own rules and as such there is no automatic "right" to free speech, but is this really what flagging is for? Flagging should be used for spam and other content which simply doesn't belong on a tech-related forum. Not for just removing stuff that you personally d…

On HN flagging is used not just for spam, but often for content you don't agree with; especially if you strongly don't agree with it. In this case you think this content shouldn't be on HN and click "flag". If enough people do that, the post disappears. There's nothing you can do about it.

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#37

Post by dvfjsdhgfv »

cimmanom wrote: post #31
J-dawg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agh, that's scary. What is she expecting them to do about it? Is she asking them to fire people for being sexually unattractive?

I think there's a distinction to be made between "people who are unable to find sexual partners" and "people who self-identify with and participate in communities that spew hatred and encourage violence over the fact that they can't find sexual partners". Sort of like the difference between "white people" and "white supremacists". Except that currently we don't have separate (reasonably brief) terms for the above cat…

> There's nothing wrong with having employees who are unattractive / can't find sexual partners, and I agree that that would be just as ridiculous a criterion to fire someone over as being caucasian.

On an unrelated note: the "firing" time hasn't arrived yet, but not being hired just because you're Caucasian isn't that uncommon nowadays.

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#38

Post by J-dawg »

cimmanom wrote: post #31
J-dawg wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agh, that's scary. What is she expecting them to do about it? Is she asking them to fire people for being sexually unattractive?

I think there's a distinction to be made between "people who are unable to find sexual partners" and "people who self-identify with and participate in communities that spew hatred and encourage violence over the fact that they can't find sexual partners". Sort of like the difference between "white people" and "white supremacists". Except that currently we don't have separate (reasonably brief) terms for the above cat…

I think this "intolerance of intolerance" is becoming terrifying.

I personally find "people who hate people with a different skin colour" and "people who hate women" to be repulsive. I'd prefer not to work with those people, if possible. But I accept that in a free society, I might have to. I have no special right to be protected from opinions I don't like, and nor should I.

Nobody should be excluded from employment because of an opinion. And in a free society, it should never be illegal to state an opinion.

We are crossing the line into thought crime here, and it's frightening to see powerful people like Ellen Pao being ok with that.

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#39

Post by J-dawg »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #36
J-dawg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flagging as no good discussion can come from this ..in your opinion. Why do you feel the need to silence that discussion? I get that HN is a forum with its own rules and as such there is no automatic "right" to free speech, but is this really what flagging is for? Flagging should be used for spam and other content which simply doesn't belong on a tech-related forum. Not for just removing stuff that you personally d…

On HN flagging is used not just for spam, but often for content you don't agree with; especially if you strongly don't agree with it. In this case you think this content shouldn't be on HN and click "flag". If enough people do that, the post disappears. There's nothing you can do about it.

> Please don't complain that a submission is inappropriate. If a story is spam or off-topic, flag it. Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead. If you flag something, please don't also comment that you did.

Flagging is supposed to be used for spam or off-topic content. People who flag stuff they don't agree with are not following the guidelines of this community.

'whalesalad' is apparently breaking the guidelines twice, first by flagging something simply because they don't agree with the discussion that might ensue, and secondly by commenting to say that they flagged.

Source: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: OkCupid Deletes Post “Your Looks and Your Inbox”

#40

Post by yodon »

J-dawg wrote: post #22

Why do posts like this get flagged so often? This relates directly to a tech company, and is about the intersection of tech & societal trends which many people here are interested in. It seems like perfectly valid HN content. Do flagged posts get reviewed by moderators, or does HN allow a minority of users to flag whatever they want out of existence?

There is unfortunately a small but non-trivial fraction of HN readers who think it’s important to say “I know what other people should not be allowed to read and I will use my privileges to enforce my opinion.” In other contexts those same people would loudly decry others engaging in that practice as evil censors, but they’ve wrapped themselves in a belief that because they are the ones seeking to deny others the right to read something that they are virtuous in their actions.
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