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Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

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Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#31

Post by okasaki »

tripletao wrote: post #18

His punishment seems disproportionate and stupid (like, why are we spending money to lock him up instead of fining him more?); but he clearly intended to make disks that buyers would think were factory originals, and knew that he was breaking the law. From his email: > I can look in to the missing boxes - Usually in my history - Customs just ships them to you 3 weeks later. > If they call you - play stupid and just t…

Those seem like ideas on how to get past customs more easily, not necessarily an admission of any wrongdoing.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#33

Post by DEFCON28 »

okasaki wrote: post #31
tripletao wrote: post #18

His punishment seems disproportionate and stupid (like, why are we spending money to lock him up instead of fining him more?); but he clearly intended to make disks that buyers would think were factory originals, and knew that he was breaking the law. From his email: > I can look in to the missing boxes - Usually in my history - Customs just ships them to you 3 weeks later. > If they call you - play stupid and just t…

Those seem like ideas on how to get past customs more easily, not necessarily an admission of any wrongdoing.

Huh? Lying to customs isn’t “wrongdoing”? You need to get a new moral compass.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#34

Post by letsgetphysITal »

notahacker wrote: post #5

15 months sounds excessive, but the fact the software could be downloaded by customers for free is not a mitigating factor in a guy attempting to make a profit making it look as much as possible like a paid for product sold by Dell/Microsoft...

You don't understand. Without the (license) key (which he didn't sell), these disks are coasters. Windows installations without a valid license key (or a crack, which he again didn't provide) are crippled after 30 days.

These disks are only useful to people who already own a Windows license.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#35

Post by tripletao »

DEFCON28 wrote: post #33
okasaki wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those seem like ideas on how to get past customs more easily, not necessarily an admission of any wrongdoing.

Huh? Lying to customs isn’t “wrongdoing”? You need to get a new moral compass.

In fairness, it's incredibly common--I once ordered from a Chinese site where the order form had a field for the value that you wanted them to declare. You won't usually get caught, but the government isn't usually too happy if you do.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#36

Post by emodendroket »

mchannon wrote: post #7

So many in this case are missing the point. If Microsoft caught him violating their copyright, and it bothered Microsoft, Microsoft should have sued in civil court. That is the purpose of civil court- to penalize wrongdoing by companies. Happens all the time. But Microsoft was never going to recover anything in civil court. So Microsoft lied to the US government about the value of what was being "stolen", and got the…

> That is the purpose of civil court- to penalize wrongdoing by companies.

That's kind of a confused notion of the purpose of the distinction between civil and criminal court.s

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#37

Post by DEFCON28 »

goatherders wrote: post #27
nailer wrote: post #8

The other side of the case, which contains a lot of detail not mentioned here: https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-fac...

Not sure why this is getting buried.

Because to YCombinator fans Microsoft is always bad, and nobody should ever be able to own intellectual property.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#38

Post by emodendroket »

simion314 wrote: post #11
skate22 wrote: post #3

Title is missleading: "His actual crime, which he pleaded guilty to, was counterfeiting the packaging to make the discs pass for Dell-branded ones." He misled his customers in order to make money. This isnt really different than selling knock off gucci handbags. Sure they probably work & look the same, but it does damage to the legitimate brand.

The guy is guilty for that, the problem is the way damages were calculated and that they guy ended in prison instead of paying the damages.

To reuse the OP's example, I don't think someone running an enterprise devoted to selling counterfeit handbags would be subject only to civil liability.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#39

Post by emodendroket »

kelnos wrote: post #10
skate22 wrote: post #3

Title is missleading: "His actual crime, which he pleaded guilty to, was counterfeiting the packaging to make the discs pass for Dell-branded ones." He misled his customers in order to make money. This isnt really different than selling knock off gucci handbags. Sure they probably work & look the same, but it does damage to the legitimate brand.

Counterfeit handbags damage the brand either by being made of poor quality materials, or by just being sold cheaply, which undercuts the brand's ability to charge a premium. (Not making a value judgment of these practices; just it is what it is.) Neither of those things is the case here. The discs are near-identical in quality to the discs Dell would have furnished, and (as far as I can tell), Dell essentially gives…

It's not legal to sell counterfeit handbags if they're really good counterfeits.

Re: Microsoft helped imprison a man for ‘counterfeiting’ software it gives away free

#40

Post by belltaco »

scandox wrote: post #6

Did he or did he not seek to make a meaningful profit from this activity? I can't see information on that in the article. Also did he use the downloadable file or did he actually burn from an existing DELL disc? I think there would be software differences potentially there right? I got a reinstallation media sent out from DELL and it definitely seemed customised.

There are some quotes from his emails here which show he was clearly trying to profit and counterfeit the CDs to make them look exactly like the originals.

https://blogs.microsoft.com/on-the-issues/2018/04/27/the-fac...

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