Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

newyorker.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 102 posts

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#31

Post by tptacek »

bvinc wrote: post #25
aphextron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational. Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional.

> Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional. It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. All I'm advocating is a little bit of doubt. The human body is complex and not every person is the same and not every biological process is completely understood. We can make statements as a whole, like that most people that thin…

You might just as well raise concerns about adverse effects from dill, or alliums, or fava beans. In fact, all three of those are more likely to be associated with ill effects, because they're more allergenic.

The reason MSG gets such harsh pushback is that the idea of "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" or "MSG sensitivity" has been rebutted pretty comprehensively both from an empirical perspective --- decades of studies have never established a link, which according to the narrative of MSG sensitivity should be very easy to do! --- and from a theoretical perspective. In fact, the theoretical basis for the safety of MSG is pretty plain just from the molecule, which makes you wonder how people could be spinning stories about the dangers of chemical MSG at all.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#32

Post by gilrain »

StringyBob wrote: post #2

I assume lots of chefs (in high end restaurants) use MSG, but rightly think it could scare off some of their clientele.

Chef's are superstitious and misinformed about food science at only slightly lower rates than average, in my experience. Most of fine cooking is based on tradition and received wisdom rather than evidence.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#33

Post by cjlars »

bvinc wrote: post #16
thedz wrote: post #5

I've talked to many otherwise perfectly rational folks who get worked up about avoiding MSG when it comes to Asian food — but still go out and buy liquid aminos or eat foods that are caked in it.

I just checked the ingredients on my liquid aminos and it doesn't say msg. Their website says they don't add it, but there may be "very small amounts" that naturally occur from the soybeans. Please explain. P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational.

Monosodium Glutamate (MSG) is an amino acid bound to a sodium molecule to make it into a shelf stable powder. Much like table salt (NaCl) is a sodium molecule bound to a chloride molecule to achieve the same. When they contact the water in food they both dissolve into the component molecules.

So really what you're talking about is glutamate which is a very widely occuring amino acid. It's "non-essential" which means that your body produces it. Almost all fermented foods contain it (including liquid aminos). Cheeses, meats, vegetables, etc contain it. It's very likely that you eat several times as much naturally occurring glutamate in your diet as you would if you used MSG in your cooking.

Basically if someone says they are allergic to MSG, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain glutamate, is like someone saying they're allergic to table salt, but not allergic to all of the other foods that contain sodium, which is not medically plausible.

The flip side is that very high blood concentration of sodium can cause medical issues, and people worried about glutamate argue that a similar effect is going on when you eat MSG, but research so far indicates that at normal dietary levels, you're fine to sprinkle a little of either molecule on your food.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#34

Post by bsmith »

bvinc wrote: post #16
thedz wrote: post #5

I've talked to many otherwise perfectly rational folks who get worked up about avoiding MSG when it comes to Asian food — but still go out and buy liquid aminos or eat foods that are caked in it.

I just checked the ingredients on my liquid aminos and it doesn't say msg. Their website says they don't add it, but there may be "very small amounts" that naturally occur from the soybeans. Please explain. P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational.

MSG is, chemically, just a specific salt of glutamic acid. When dissolved (in food, or in the mouth) it forms free glutamate, which triggers the umami sensation on the tongue. Liquid aminos, cheeses, tomatoes, and many other foods are naturally high in free glutamates — and thus the savory, umami flavor that comes with it — even if MSG or other compounds aren't specifically added.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#35

Post by philipkglass »

psychometry wrote: post #15

Does anyone know if the brand mentioned (Ajinomoto) is any better than Accent? I mean, MSG is MSG, right?

Yes, MSG is MSG. Accent apparently has at least two products.

Pure MSG:

https://www.amazon.com/Accent-Flavor-Enhancer-lb-canister/dp...

And a seasoning mixture that contains MSG, salt, and a mixture of spices:

https://www.amazon.com/Sa-son-Accent-Seasoning-Original-Pack...

I have only ever seen the first kind of Accent before (crystals of pure MSG) so I too was initially confused about what the author meant when writing

I picked up a dusty bottle of Ac’cent-brand MSG at my corner bodega. I brought it home, made dinner, and stepped into the light. After a few months of passionate use, I levelled up from Ac’cent, which includes other flavorings besides MSG, to the more pure and exquisite Ajinomoto...

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#36

Post by gilrain »

bvinc wrote: post #25
aphextron wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>P.S. I have no reaction to MSG I just don't understand why you would think someone is being irrational. Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional.

> Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional. It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. All I'm advocating is a little bit of doubt. The human body is complex and not every person is the same and not every biological process is completely understood. We can make statements as a whole, like that most people that thin…

I'm constantly worried about that teapot orbiting Mars that nobody can disprove. Imagine how much it must be worth! What color might it be? Endless fascination.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#37

Post by philipkglass »

bvinc wrote: post #21
throwaway84742 wrote: post #10

If you can tolerate chicken stock, you can tolerate MSG. It’s as simple as that.

I just checked the ingredients on my organic Costco chicken stock. The ingredients do not contain MSG. I found a website that asked Costco about their "natural flavors" and got a response that it does not contain soy, or dairy, and no MSG is added. Is it really that simple? Please explain.

The stock contains sodium and it contains glutamate from the protein in the chicken. It therefore contains MSG in the same way that salt water contains salt.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#38

Post by throwaway84742 »

bvinc wrote: post #21
throwaway84742 wrote: post #10

If you can tolerate chicken stock, you can tolerate MSG. It’s as simple as that.

I just checked the ingredients on my organic Costco chicken stock. The ingredients do not contain MSG. I found a website that asked Costco about their "natural flavors" and got a response that it does not contain soy, or dairy, and no MSG is added. Is it really that simple? Please explain.

Chicken stock contains natural glutamate because chicken itself contains it. It’s what gives chicken stock its savory flavor. Moreover, your body makes its own glutamate, too. So yes, it’s that simple. That’s why they say “no MSG is _added_”. This is similar to how a lot of meat products say “no nitrites are added”, yet use celery juice which is naturally rich in nitrites to prevent meat from turning brown.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#39

Post by mchristen »

bvinc wrote: post #21
throwaway84742 wrote: post #10

If you can tolerate chicken stock, you can tolerate MSG. It’s as simple as that.

I just checked the ingredients on my organic Costco chicken stock. The ingredients do not contain MSG. I found a website that asked Costco about their "natural flavors" and got a response that it does not contain soy, or dairy, and no MSG is added. Is it really that simple? Please explain.

Glutamates are found naturally in everything you eat. MSG is just a water soluble form of glutamates.

Re: An MSG Convert Visits the High Church of Umami

#40

Post by bvinc »

tptacek wrote: post #31
bvinc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because nobody has a reaction to MSG. It's ill effects are entirely fictional. It has not been proven, and will not be proven, that every single person in the world has no reaction to MSG. All I'm advocating is a little bit of doubt. The human body is complex and not every person is the same and not every biological process is completely understood. We can make statements as a whole, like that most people that thin…

You might just as well raise concerns about adverse effects from dill, or alliums, or fava beans. In fact, all three of those are more likely to be associated with ill effects, because they're more allergenic. The reason MSG gets such harsh pushback is that the idea of "Chinese Restaurant Syndrome" or "MSG sensitivity" has been rebutted pretty comprehensively both from an empirical perspective --- decades of studies…

I'm not trying to raise concerns. And actually, I agree with everything that you said. There is obviously a lot of misinformation and most of people's reactions and stories are factually incorrect and part of a fad. We can say that for sure because we've studied it.

What I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't take that knowledge and then proceed to tell an individual, who you haven't studied, that they are wrong about what is happening to their bodies. People have weird and rare reactions to things all the time. You should have a healthy amount of doubt and realize that maybe you don't have complete knowledge of their bodies. Why is everyone here so certain? Who proved that no person on the planet has any reaction to MSG?

Post reply on HN