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E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

washingtonpost.com

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Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#31

Post by oldcynic »

treis wrote: post #18
sevensor wrote: post #7

Sounds like this guy made a really bad decision in putting the Windows and Dell logos on the disks, and then selling them (albeit for $0.25, which would seem to just barely cover the cost of production.) But that bad decision pales in comparison to the court's decision to value at $25 what Microsoft was giving away for free. If anything, he was saving them a significant amount of bandwidth.

Microsoft wasn't giving them away for free though. According to the article, they get $25 for each disk from computer manufacturers.

"But both the letter and the expert were pricing a disk that came with a Microsoft license"

So the $25 is the cost, to Dell etc, of volume purchase of Windows OEM along with the sticker with licence number.

Utterly unrelated to a restore disk for a machine that already has the sticker, and thus a valid licence.

That he is found guilty is a travesty.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#32

Post by gowld »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Doesn't a restore disk contain binaries from the operating system? So he's distributing somebody else's work, with their logo on it. However well-intentioned, its pretty dodgy. No matter what Microsoft does with those binaries, they weren't his to resell?

What's the harm? 0. I get no commercial value from having the same OS twice on my machine.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#33

Post by HenryBemis »

One of the phrases I keep from this article is: “I don’t think anybody in that courtroom understood what a restore disk was”.

I remember listening to Steve Gibson (GRC), on SecurityNow podcast, saying that this is the exact reason why he is not willing to testify to a Court of Law any more. Having testified in court for some cases as "specialist" it is (almost always) needed to find metaphors and analogies on anything-technology. Some judges and lawyers are educated but twisting the meaning of something (misinterpreting the truth) is often the case.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#34

Post by fuball63 »

dingaling wrote: post #3

I'm in two minds over this. First, it's ridiculous that someone is being jailed for 15 months for trying to make it easier to keep using older PCs and reducing waste. On the other hand that's the risk one takes when dabbling in the world of proprietary software. Where discouraging people from upgrading is seen as a threat to revenue and is attacked accordingly. Had he printed 34,000 Linux disks we'd never have had th…

My first response was "he should have used linux", but I came to a similar conclusion as you. People are scared of linux, despite it now being almost as easy as Windows to install/use for typical usage.

E-waste is the result of computer transitioning from the role of "tool" to role of "disposable consumer good". The effort to provide people with the ability to easily repair their machines to a familiar state (being Windows), to me, seems the most effective way to combat e-waste.

EDIT: added 'being Windows' to second paragraph

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#35

Post by joeevans1000 »

This is ridiculous. This should be a civil case at most. We are entering into a dangerous era for our own selves when we allow this sort of punishment for software issues.

Additionally, this guy recycles 41 million pounds of e-waste a year. He should be celebrated. As a result of that, I can only imagine his larger clients may have to drop the use of the services of his company. Apparently, we don't care, and many comments online are philosophic in tone.

Even if the strategy were misguided, this outcome is absurd.

That Microsoft would so vigorously pursue this guy has rekindled my dislike for the company. They almost seemed to be on a turnaround path with developers with a cool editor and a new approach. This shows that they and their products are to be avoided at all cost as before.

All I can say is that, as developers, we need to work to not embrace Microsoft as they try to restore their relationship with us. And if you work there, well, what can I say... you should speak up about this or leave for more fair waters.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#36

Post by drharby »

craftyguy wrote: post #15
zelon88 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right. This guy obviously deserves to spent the next 15 years in jail because his startup practically gave away disks with someone else's logo on it that even the original copyright owner doesn't charge money for.

.. can't tell if sarcastic or serious..

Its sarcasm

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#37

Post by NuSkooler »

zelon88 wrote: post #12
vuln wrote: post #5

Gizmodo[1] added this -- "Unfortunately, in what seems to have been a huge mistake, the disks had “labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Windows and Dell logos,” the Times wrote. As a result, Lundgren pleaded guilty to two of 21 charges, conspiracy and copyright infringement. He told the paper, “If I had just written ‘Eric’s Restore Disc’ on there, it would have been fine…

You're absolutely right. This guy obviously deserves to spent the next 15 years in jail because his startup practically gave away disks with someone else's logo on it that even the original copyright owner doesn't charge money for.

I upvoted due to sarcasm spidy sense. If I'm wrong, please let me know so I can reverse my decision :D

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#39

Post by JoeAltmaier »

gowld wrote: post #32
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #17

Doesn't a restore disk contain binaries from the operating system? So he's distributing somebody else's work, with their logo on it. However well-intentioned, its pretty dodgy. No matter what Microsoft does with those binaries, they weren't his to resell?

What's the harm ? 0. I get no commercial value from having the same OS twice on my machine.

E.g. harm to the brand when goofy guys start selling stuff with Microsoft brand and old restore data screws up machine

As he said (naively) maybe he shouldn't have put somebody else's logo on the disk. Duh.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#40

Post by oldcynic »

aresant wrote: post #22

it is sad and amusing that at least three comments on this thread point out that the wapo article is substantially incomplete. From the original LaTimes article: "In 2013, federal authorities intercepted shipments of 28,000 restore discs that Lundgren had manufactured in China and sent to his sales partner in Florida. The discs had labels nearly identical to the discs provided by Dell for its computers and had the Wi…

> What if their intent was to charge the other recyclers $10 a pop vs the $25 msft charged for the same thing?

Not what was happening at all.

MS charge Dell et al $25 for a copy of Windows Home OEM, complete with certificate of authenticity sticker and new licence number.

"a Microsoft letter to Hurley and a Microsoft expert witness had reduced the value of the disks to $25 apiece, stating that was what Microsoft charged refurbishers for such disks. But both the letter and the expert were pricing a disk that came with a Microsoft license"

He was re-creating a restore disk that only works when associated with the already existing, and still valid, licence.

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