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Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

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31–40 of 264 posts

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#31
I wonder if this trend will result in further stratification of American society. I mean, we've always had enclaves where rich people lived and poorer people lived, but they generally used to be at least nearby each other in large metros.

Now, though, this city stratification feels like a multi-layer sieve. E.g. San Francisco is still a super-desirable city to live, if you can afford it, so the people who can't get pushed to mid-tier cities, and then in those mid-tier cities poorer people get pushed out as the city gets less affordable. The whole SF Bay Area -> Austin -> (now still less expensive cities like Chattanooga, Pittsburgh, etc.) fits this pattern.

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#32
Not the crux of the article, but:

> This doesn't mean that they, or the even higher-cost, more congested coastal metros, will adopt Manhattan or Tokyo-style density and transit patterns. Instead, Austin and San Antonio might be the new Houston and Dallas.

My goodness, can we /please/ stop this false dichotomy that a city either has to be a Tokyo megalopolis or a suburban sprawlfest?

I don't think any reasonable person is advocating to turn San Francisco into Manhattan, even though that seems to be what everyone is scared of. Clearly the OP has never left the US.

Average density in Paris: ~6 stories. Barcelona: ~4 stories. Most cities in Germany: 3-5 stories. Moscow: maybe 6-7 stories.

Maybe those aren't perfect by a story or two, but point being, there IS a sustainable growth model, and it's a lot more than SF and LA's paltry 2 story average height, and certainly less than the skyscrapers of Midtown Manhattan that everyone is so scared of. You only have to look across the ocean to see it, and until the US realizes this, Boise et al. will just become another congested, sprawling, expensive suburb with an increasingly poor quality of life. If you want to live in the not-countryside, then density is the only sustainable model.

EDIT: And to respond to what I think the crux of the article actually is, that we'll never invest in sustainable urban planning because there will always be another inexpensive 100k population town that we can ruin instead, well that sure is a losing attitude. There probably is some truth there, and it makes me sad. Sure, it'll take a while for the coasts to get their act together, but let's continue to promote a vision of what a viable and sustainable solution looks like for America's cities. Any comparisons with Tokyo or the next Manhattan is just furthering a destructive narrative which, for the record, is what got San Francisco in this mess in the 1980s in the first place.

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a surprisingly large tech scene in Boise, quiet, but there.

What companies are there, and with what kind of pay range/job roles?

Micron, Clearwater, T-Sheets, Kount, WhiteCloud, Vacasa, VisitPay, Metageek, Blackbox VR, etc.

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#34

What is happening in Boise? The article doesn't really say.

The impression I got from the article was that he was using a recent WSJ article[0] about Boise as an impetus to bash urban development.

The WSJ article is basically, that it’s cheaper to buy a house in Boise. Sure it is, but there’s nothing about what these people moving to the Boise metro area (population 700k) are doing. The two Californians they talk to are, a CEO who bought a second house, and a soon to be retiree. As it is, this is more of a cutting indictment of California, than Fort Lauderdale is of NYC.

Yes, the housing in the desirable parts of California is too high, but at the same time, it’s high because it is desirable. It’s cheap to live in places where no one wants to live. If I wanted, I could move back to where I grew up and a buy a house for $27,000[1], but then I’d be Royalton, Illinois.

[0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/boise-idaho-feels-the-growing-p...

[1] https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/209-5th-St-N-Royalton-IL-...

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#35
Why is this a bad thing?

I live in a midsize city. High quality housing is $110/sqft. I can walk to my kids school, shopping, library and dining. My kid can take a bus to malls and parks, and my commute is approximately 7-10m, and few commutes around here would exceed 20-30. I can be in NYC or Boston in Why would you want to move from such a place to NYC or SFO?

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#36
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in tech, yes. There are a lot of tech related jobs that Boise has a huge deficit for. You won't be compensated at the same rates that you would be in California, but the cost of living would make up for it.

> You won't be compensated at the same rates that you would be in California, but the cost of living would make up for it. No, it generally doesn't. It depends on the specific numbers of course (how much of a salary cut, how much cheaper is the housing costs), but a lot of people make that blanket statement because of a mathematical fallacy: The fallacy is if I make half as much, but my expenses are half as much, the…

Plus, cost of living doesn't account for everything. Most consumer products, e.g. cars, computers, shoes, and clothing, cost about the same everywhere. Living in San Francisco with a higher salary and paying a high rent, your spending on such products will be a smaller percentage of your income than if you lived somewhere with cheaper housing and made less money.

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#37
As a result of the recent growth Boise now has the 7th largest income gap in the nation[0]. And the median home price recently shot up $11k in one month[1].

[0]: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-04-19/migration...

[1]: http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/business/article208855154...

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#38

My general view after travelling to Denver is that one of America's biggest issues is underpopulation. There is so much land in these areas and actually lots of infrastructure relative to population. It all stood out to me how white these areas remain. I saw a handful of non whites and no Asians the entire time. Shocking how the whitest areas are the most anti immigrant. What are they so angry about?! Bringing in mig…

Denver is 30% Latino, 11% Black, 5% Asian. Not sure how you only saw a handful of non-whites.

Segregation.

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#39
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in tech, yes. There are a lot of tech related jobs that Boise has a huge deficit for. You won't be compensated at the same rates that you would be in California, but the cost of living would make up for it.

> You won't be compensated at the same rates that you would be in California, but the cost of living would make up for it. No, it generally doesn't. It depends on the specific numbers of course (how much of a salary cut, how much cheaper is the housing costs), but a lot of people make that blanket statement because of a mathematical fallacy: The fallacy is if I make half as much, but my expenses are half as much, the…

Housing isn’t twice as expensive in San Francisco, it is 10x. Median price per square foot is $129 in Boise, vs $1550 for Palo Alto, or $993 in SF, $1220 SOMA.

Re: Why Invest in Cities? There's Always Another Boise

#40

My general view after travelling to Denver is that one of America's biggest issues is underpopulation. There is so much land in these areas and actually lots of infrastructure relative to population. It all stood out to me how white these areas remain. I saw a handful of non whites and no Asians the entire time. Shocking how the whitest areas are the most anti immigrant. What are they so angry about?! Bringing in mig…

Many American cities feel like they've just suffered a bombing raid and are in the process of rebuilding. It's parking lots, abandoned buildings, and other junk for as far as the eye can see.
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