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Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

nytimes.com

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Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#31

Post by morogop »

metei wrote: post #20
21 wrote: post #16

> The catch is that the bank, like all the others that use Zelle, only considers transactions fraudulent if the customer did not authorize them. How can the banks be so short-sighted? Soon a lot of people will hear that Zelle is not secure and they will avoid using it.

Lots of banks and Credit Unions have implemented Zelle in app, its the last gasp they have to compete against Venmo. The only upside to Zelle is essentially offering instant transfers for free, where Venmo makes you wait a few days or pay $0.25.

The upside is that it's instantly in the target bank account, not a week away as it is with Venmo.

I use Venmo to pay bar tabs and event tickets. I use Zelle to send my wife money for the mortgage.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#32

Post by dawhizkid »

metei wrote: post #20
21 wrote: post #16

> The catch is that the bank, like all the others that use Zelle, only considers transactions fraudulent if the customer did not authorize them. How can the banks be so short-sighted? Soon a lot of people will hear that Zelle is not secure and they will avoid using it.

Lots of banks and Credit Unions have implemented Zelle in app, its the last gasp they have to compete against Venmo. The only upside to Zelle is essentially offering instant transfers for free, where Venmo makes you wait a few days or pay $0.25.

That’s a pretty huge upside IMO...

It’s actually even faster than instant deposit on Venmo because the funds appear to settle instantly (not just transferred instantly)

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#33

Post by lemonberry »

rkho wrote: post #29
patio11 wrote: post #4

If you ever send money to A and it actually goes to B, and for some reason the bank doesn't fix that the first time you get in touch with them, I recommend getting off the phone and escalating to an on-dead-tree letter: Dear BigBank Legal Department: This is written notice under Regulation E that BigBank has processed the following electronic transaction in error: (Brief recitation of transaction details.) You are re…

I read this comment and the first thing that it reminded me of was @patio11's post on contacting banks after the Equifax breach, and so I was about to dig it up to post as a comment when I realized who the GP was :)

Is this the post you're referring to?

https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-r...

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#34

Post by metei »

dawhizkid wrote: post #32
metei wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of banks and Credit Unions have implemented Zelle in app, its the last gasp they have to compete against Venmo. The only upside to Zelle is essentially offering instant transfers for free, where Venmo makes you wait a few days or pay $0.25.

That’s a pretty huge upside IMO... It’s actually even faster than instant deposit on Venmo because the funds appear to settle instantly (not just transferred instantly)

It is, I rather like it. There is a 1 business day delay for your first transaction fyi, which is a reasonable fraud deterrent. All transactions thereafter between Zelle members are instant and free though!

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#37

Post by valuearb »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #23
RSZC wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Throwing infinite money and developers at something does not make a good product. Source: I work for a SaaS aimed primarily at large banks, most of which attempted to build our product themselves before giving up and signing with us.

> Throwing infinite money and developers at something does not make a good product. Of course not. But it gives them more time to try and more attempts, where your runway is limited. You would eventually run out of funds if you don't find product market fit. They will not run out of funds, ever.

And likely they will be unable to build a good product, ever. You can't have decision making dissonance at the most senior levels of your organization and make good products.

Resources alone solve no product problems, leadership is far more important. I know of a $10B company whose most important feature (by far) of it's consumer facing app fails well over half the time customers tried to use it. This problem has been known for nearly a year and at no point has the team been allowed to make fixing it a priority.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#38

Post by _bxg1 »

A conglomerate of giant, old, non-tech companies tried to launch a casual and trendy service, and the software sucks? I'm shocked.

That said: "...a phishing email that appeared to be from Wells Fargo tricked her into entering her bank ID and password into a fraudulent website." This situation didn't depend on Zelle's existence to be possible. I would say the problem here is browsers not doing a good enough job helping people identify when a site isn't the one they think it is, but it's a tough problem.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#39

Post by toomuchtodo »

valuearb wrote: post #37
toomuchtodo wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Throwing infinite money and developers at something does not make a good product. Of course not. But it gives them more time to try and more attempts, where your runway is limited. You would eventually run out of funds if you don't find product market fit. They will not run out of funds, ever.

And likely they will be unable to build a good product, ever. You can't have decision making dissonance at the most senior levels of your organization and make good products. Resources alone solve no product problems, leadership is far more important. I know of a $10B company whose most important feature (by far) of it's consumer facing app fails well over half the time customers tried to use it. This problem has bee…

Your product doesn't need to be good if you control the market for it.

You’re going to go start a bank you say? See BankSimple and Standard Treasury (and their abysmal exits to real banks, BBVA and Silicon Valley Bank, respectively) to see what that path looks like.

Having a great product alone is not good enough.

Re: Zelle, the Banks’ Answer to Venmo, Proves Vulnerable to Fraud

#40

Post by djsumdog »

patio11 wrote: post #4

If you ever send money to A and it actually goes to B, and for some reason the bank doesn't fix that the first time you get in touch with them, I recommend getting off the phone and escalating to an on-dead-tree letter: Dear BigBank Legal Department: This is written notice under Regulation E that BigBank has processed the following electronic transaction in error: (Brief recitation of transaction details.) You are re…

> somebody in Cincinnati

I love how my old city gets mentioned randomly a lot .. like the first episode of BoJack Horseman with the Penguin.

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