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Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

independent.co.uk

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Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#31

Post by matrixagent »

downandout wrote: post #14
johnny313 wrote: post #8

This does not discuss whether nonusers will be asked to opt-in. Curious how GDPR will change tracking people w/out FB accounts.

You can already see it on many sites. They're basically just a more forceful version of cookie notifications with language about third party tracking thrown in that force you to say "OK" or tell you to leave. Here's an example: http://prntscr.com/j67usw FB, as with all third party trackers, isn't the one actually responsible for notifying you about the use of their pixels etc. on third party sites. The site operator…

The screenshotted example is nothing new, I've seen that specific thing at least 6 months ago. I don't think it has anything to do with GDPR, and as others have already mentioned it is not likely to be legal under it.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#32

Post by Guest9812398 »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #18
Guest9812398 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't we simply choose relevant ad categories that we would prefer to see? Why do the options need to be (i) see random advertisements that are likely irrelevant, or (ii) allow us to track your every move, including your location, each site you visit with the Facebook widget, your message and call history, and your every click. Or non-Facebook related, why can't my smart TV just let me choose PC Gaming, Technolog…

Why can't ads be relevant to the content of the page like they used to be in the good old days? As an example of stupid targeted ads: I bought a Casper mattress a couple of months ago and pretty much every single ad I've seen since then (on devices where I don't have them blocked) has been for mattresses. How many mattresses does the internet think I need? If I'm reading about something on the internet it's generally…

I see these all the time too.

1. I bought one of those spinning face brushes for my girlfriend. A few minutes after purchasing online, I started seeing advertisements from that same store, for the same exact brush. Literally 90% of the page views were showing that advertisement.

2. I was browsing Airbnb accommodation for a trip to let's say Mexico. I was checking apartments on and off for weeks. I didn't see any Airbnb advertisements during that time. The minute I book that accommodation, Airbnb starts showing advertisements for rooms in Mexico.

3. I'm browsing barbers in a new city. No advertisements until I book an appointment with one online. Then, I start seeing advertisements for the same barbershop. Now, that has potential, but the advertisements stopped after a week. Why do I need to book a second hair appointment in the same week? Why not recognize I booked a men's haircut, and start showing me ads in a few weeks?

For all the tracking, privacy invasion, and fancy "machine learning", advertising sure is dumb.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#33

Post by matrixagent »

muro wrote: post #11
nathanaldensr wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Chief Privacy Officer" at a company that wouldn't exist were real privacy to be present in their products.

Heh, funny. Unfortunately also nonsense. A CFO also exists and not because a company doesn't handle finances responsibly. Or a CEO implies no engineering?

I think you misread. The implication was that Facebook would not exist with real privacy in the product, not the role of CPO within Facebook.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#35

Post by logfromblammo »

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #18
Guest9812398 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't we simply choose relevant ad categories that we would prefer to see? Why do the options need to be (i) see random advertisements that are likely irrelevant, or (ii) allow us to track your every move, including your location, each site you visit with the Facebook widget, your message and call history, and your every click. Or non-Facebook related, why can't my smart TV just let me choose PC Gaming, Technolog…

Why can't ads be relevant to the content of the page like they used to be in the good old days? As an example of stupid targeted ads: I bought a Casper mattress a couple of months ago and pretty much every single ad I've seen since then (on devices where I don't have them blocked) has been for mattresses. How many mattresses does the internet think I need? If I'm reading about something on the internet it's generally…

It's in case you put the first mattress on top of a pea, princess.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#36

Post by xg15 »

d6de964 wrote: post #21

Google already does this anytime I clear my cookies. Why would they allow someone using the service if they didn't get something back?

Good question - though half of the internet has been built by pretending to offer your service for free. So either we keep doing that or we have to admit that our whole industry has been lying to their users.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#37

Post by maximente »

downandout wrote: post #14
johnny313 wrote: post #8

This does not discuss whether nonusers will be asked to opt-in. Curious how GDPR will change tracking people w/out FB accounts.

You can already see it on many sites. They're basically just a more forceful version of cookie notifications with language about third party tracking thrown in that force you to say "OK" or tell you to leave. Here's an example: http://prntscr.com/j67usw FB, as with all third party trackers, isn't the one actually responsible for notifying you about the use of their pixels etc. on third party sites. The site operator…

this is fundamentally insufficient, though.

if there's a hosted image from a facebook domain (e.g. a like button), unless that image is loaded after consent is given, facebook can already associate that users' IP address with having visited that web site by nature of sending the image over. in other words, facebook is tracking pre-consent (unless those images are loaded post-hoc, which is just not happening in today's world)

as a result, it's fundamentally impossible to consent before visiting a particular website, because there's no way to know what other domains will be triggered by visiting that website.

the only way i've found to defeat this behavior is by using ublock's origin's default deny policy which prevents all 3rd party domains from being accessed by default. it's a bit of a usability pain as one often has to add e.g. stack overflow's CDN to use its website "well", but does prevent visiting a website which has an embedded image hosted on a FB domain from being loaded, which defeats the more nefarious FB tracking.

https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/Dynamic-filtering:-de...

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#38

Post by nielsbjerg »

ams6110 wrote: post #24
SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't ads be relevant to the content of the page like they used to be in the good old days? As an example of stupid targeted ads: I bought a Casper mattress a couple of months ago and pretty much every single ad I've seen since then (on devices where I don't have them blocked) has been for mattresses. How many mattresses does the internet think I need? If I'm reading about something on the internet it's generally…

My guess, some people buy a mattress and end up unhappy with it, return it, and buy something else. This is enough people that it's worth showing mattress ads to all recent mattress buyers.

My guess is bad purchase tracking

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#39

Post by ravenstine »

Guest9812398 wrote: post #15
fuscy wrote: post #7

Considering that Facebook makes its revenue from ads and that providing relevant ads needs data and tracking, this move is not so bad. Users that don’t accept the terms or use various tech to block this, would receive misappropriated ads. Bad ads make companies lose revenue while annoying the users with extremely irrelevant info. This method should be extremely effective in removing false positives. Personal observat…

Why can't we simply choose relevant ad categories that we would prefer to see? Why do the options need to be (i) see random advertisements that are likely irrelevant, or (ii) allow us to track your every move, including your location, each site you visit with the Facebook widget, your message and call history, and your every click. Or non-Facebook related, why can't my smart TV just let me choose PC Gaming, Technolog…

I've wondered this for a long time. As someone who pretty much despises ads, I'd be willing to just tell advertisers what I want to see and turn off adblock rather than have them guess what I want to see(which is usually either something I don't want to buy or something I've already purchased).

If they would just ask me what my interests are and stop allowing shady/malicious ads, I'd probably just turn off adblock.

Re: Facebook to ask everyone to accept being tracked so they can keep using it

#40

Post by downandout »

maximente wrote: post #37
downandout wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can already see it on many sites. They're basically just a more forceful version of cookie notifications with language about third party tracking thrown in that force you to say "OK" or tell you to leave. Here's an example: http://prntscr.com/j67usw FB, as with all third party trackers, isn't the one actually responsible for notifying you about the use of their pixels etc. on third party sites. The site operator…

this is fundamentally insufficient, though. if there's a hosted image from a facebook domain (e.g. a like button), unless that image is loaded after consent is given, facebook can already associate that users' IP address with having visited that web site by nature of sending the image over. in other words, facebook is tracking pre-consent (unless those images are loaded post-hoc, which is just not happening in today'…

Yeah, but that's easy enough to deal with. You simply don't load any third party stuff (or allow them to see your content) until they click "OK". Some simple javascript is all it takes to delay loading of everything not on the current server.

So basically prior to serving any content, you do an IP check. If they are from a GDPR country, you serve the delay loading script. If they aren't, you just load as normal. Pretty straightforward. I don't think you'd want to do it universally for all users, as you'd be at a competitive disadvantage to other sites. But you can easily enough just do it for EU countries. The other option is to just block them entirely if you have no need for EU traffic. Many sites - US local businesses etc. have no use for EU traffic or the liability that comes with it.

On a side note, with all the walled garden stuff that will be going on due to GDPR, I'll be interested to see how badly the SERPs get fractured, since every site will have a different scheme to require consent and not all of them will have people behind them that are savvy enough to make it not ask Googlebot for affirmative consent. This will put smaller businesses in the EU that don't have the resources to hire someone to deal with these issues at a serious disadvantage if they can no longer be indexed.

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