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Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

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Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#31
post #8
post #4

I might be coming off as naive here, but the minute I saw this: "searching for a business model", I got my skepticism on. Why is this startup searching for a business model? Shouldn't you start with that and build your company around it? Again, apologies if this is a naive POV.

Steve Blanks' "Building A Business Model" is the idea that you iteratively develop your startup based on what you discover about your customer's needs. Ie. your first attempt at a project is almost never what your potential customers will actually end up paying for. He espouses that you should build a minimal product based on your idea. Then iterate over the following points seeking traction and revenue 1) "Get out o…

"He espouses that you should build a minimal product based on your idea. Then iterate over the following points seeking traction and revenue."

No, he doesn't. He really really doesn't. In fact, that's the exact opposite of what he advocates and what his customer development methodology attacks - the old school product development approach of building the product first and then collecting feedback to refine it, figuring out how to market it, finding out who the target customer is, etc.

Developing your customer base (rather than developing your product) means that you talk to customers and learn their existing pain points before you design or build a single thing. His Four Steps To The Epiphany MBA textbook calls it Customer Discovery, or step one. Everything in the #1-4 loop you described is step two - Customer Validation - where you then try to validate your hypothesis about the customer pain points with your product ideas and/or prototypes.

I'm ripping off this giant rant because for some reason, I see this on HN a lot. A lot. It's really common for people to conflate MVP with customer development and to also reverse the order that you do it. I think you see this on HN in particular because it's filled with coders that prototype in code the way designers prototype on paper, so they think "hmm, how hard could it be for me to throw something together in a week or two and see if anyone will buy it?" instead of "how hard could it be for me to go talk to people and see if there's a potential customer base for this idea I have?" It's not just that the second path is easier, it means that the product you build afterwards is way better informed. On the other hand, MVP seems to appeal to HNers because it's like the Nike message of startups - Just Do It. Just go ahead and build something already because all you need to do afterwards is refinement. A little bit of a/b testing magic on landing pages here, a bit of keyword research on Adwords there and then bam, your app is paying the rent while you drink margaritas on the beach.

Off the top of my head, one of the more recent examples I can think of was just this last month when Zach Burt (zackattack) unveiled Awesomeness Reminders and someone asked him about all the stuff he's built this year, so he wrote about his personal process for throwing tons of little MVP apps against the wall and then why he'd ditch each one before moving on to the next:

http://www.zacharyburt.com/2010/08/an-open-discussion-of-my-...

Not to pick on the guy, but this was a particularly egregious example. Explaining why he abandoned one of his apps (CustomerFind), he wrote:

"I did do some Customer Development meetings related to CustomerFind, and pivots suggested room for a potential enterprise-y Social Media dashboard product."

No, you didn't! You didn't do Customer Development - you did Customer Validation, where you did a little bit of research after you built the product to see if the product you already built solved the problems that you just plain guessed your customers had. In other words, you tried to skip a step and validate your product against customer base that you didn't create in advance and then surprise! There wasn't a fit and the app wasn't monetizable. An interest list based on email signups is not the same as purchase orders. Rinse and repeat for 4 or 5 apps and there went his 2010 so far.

So when do you do MVP and when do you do Customer Development?

Easy - it depends on whether you're building something where you're also the target audience, scratching your own itch, eating your own dogfood, Tim O'Reilly's "fishing with strawberries", etc, or if you're building something for other people.

Both approaches are still just different versions of PG's "make stuff people want" but you need some kind of internal compass to guide the way. If you know the phone in your pocket sucks and you can build a better experience, then Apple can go make something that's clearly better without having to do a lot of market research. So they do. And if you think you'd like to get a call every once in a while and hear a real human being tell you that you're awesome, then there you go. But if you're building something for other people to use that have problems that you don't experience on a daily basis, like say, an app for bloggers that get a good amount of traffic and are looking to get into direct sales rather than relying solely on Adsense's anemic payouts, then you better do your homework and get on the phone.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#32
post #25
post #21

The thing about titles, is that sometimes even though they don't reflect what you really do on a day to day basis, they do help with career management - i.e. finding the next job if the current one goes bust. So sometimes its ok to give someone a high-falutin' title as long as they understand up front that they have to earn it.

And the thing about salesmen is that in the interview they're selling themselves. Of course he said what Rajiv wanted to hear! That's what he does for a living!

> "Of course he said what Rajiv wanted to hear! That's what he does for a living!"

In my mind, that marks out a bad salesman. Telling people what they want to hear is not sales. At best, it's inept and at worst it's deceiving. Simply put, you shouldn't sell something you don't have.[1]

[1] If sales people are 'selling' before a product is finished then it should be clear that it's the vision they're pedalling, not the product.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#33
post #4

I might be coming off as naive here, but the minute I saw this: "searching for a business model", I got my skepticism on. Why is this startup searching for a business model? Shouldn't you start with that and build your company around it? Again, apologies if this is a naive POV.

Some companies do, others don't. Often what you think would be your business model turns out to be totally wrong and you need to change it. Even if you have a business model you should still be looking for others until you know the first one works.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#34
post #31
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Steve Blanks' "Building A Business Model" is the idea that you iteratively develop your startup based on what you discover about your customer's needs. Ie. your first attempt at a project is almost never what your potential customers will actually end up paying for. He espouses that you should build a minimal product based on your idea. Then iterate over the following points seeking traction and revenue 1) "Get out o…

" He espouses that you should build a minimal product based on your idea. Then iterate over the following points seeking traction and revenue. " No, he doesn't. He really really doesn't. In fact, that's the exact opposite of what he advocates and what his customer development methodology attacks - the old school product development approach of building the product first and then collecting feedback to refine it, figu…

awesome contribution to the discussion, thank you! and i think you're right about the problem with folks getting MVP confused.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#35
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why you can't tell an interviewee what you want in an employee. You need to hold your cards close to your chest and get THEM to tell you what they deliver. If it doesn't fit then you need to consider finding someone else. The worst thing you can do is bring in someone for an interview, tell them what you want to hear, and then allow them to echo back to you what you want to hear. Which is what most humans wil…

> "This is why you can't tell an interviewee what you want in an employee" I disagree. If a company cannot clearly state what is expected of an employee then how can it expect to attract/retain great people? The interviewee should also be assessing their potential employer so being reluctant to share relevant information probably wouldn't come across well (at least not to me). Interviewing is a skill and a good inter…

Easy. In the interview you present the candidate with scenarios and let them run with them. In an interview you are rarely looking for specific facts; rather you want to discern the candidates thought process.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#36
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely: the plural of anecdote is not data. But Steve is not marshaling evidence for a proposition here, he's teaching a concept by telling a story to bring the concept alive. That's quite a different thing, and exactly what parables are for.

I don't dispute your overall argument, but: the plural of anecdote is not data The problem is that a parable isn't even an anecdote. One of the other posters on here, saying "this happened to me" is an anecdote, and I found that useful. parable anecdote data <- often useful, but subject to horrible flaws in interpretation

This is a true story. It has been anonymized to protect the identity of the person Steve was advising.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#37

Interesting points, but it reads like a parable, rather than something that actually happened. This is something that irritates me about business writing. Parable != evidence, since I construct a parable after the fact, to make a specific point. Also, like witty aphorisms, it's just as easy to support either side of an argument. E.g. "the early bird gets the worm" v.s "the second mouse gets the cheese".

"the early bird gets the worm" v.s "the second mouse gets the cheese". But I think that for the second to be true there must be some trap for the mouse. If you foresee the traps of the future then you can take the cheese.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#38
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely: the plural of anecdote is not data. But Steve is not marshaling evidence for a proposition here, he's teaching a concept by telling a story to bring the concept alive. That's quite a different thing, and exactly what parables are for.

I don't dispute your overall argument, but: the plural of anecdote is not data The problem is that a parable isn't even an anecdote. One of the other posters on here, saying "this happened to me" is an anecdote, and I found that useful. parable anecdote data <- often useful, but subject to horrible flaws in interpretation

Is the overall argument about is you shot with your blind eyes and miss the target, then you move the target and say you hit it, so you are a great master and never miss a shot.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#39
post #8
post #4

I might be coming off as naive here, but the minute I saw this: "searching for a business model", I got my skepticism on. Why is this startup searching for a business model? Shouldn't you start with that and build your company around it? Again, apologies if this is a naive POV.

Steve Blanks' "Building A Business Model" is the idea that you iteratively develop your startup based on what you discover about your customer's needs. Ie. your first attempt at a project is almost never what your potential customers will actually end up paying for. He espouses that you should build a minimal product based on your idea. Then iterate over the following points seeking traction and revenue 1) "Get out o…

using the information for feedback and iterating to improve your business model is not enough. When you are learning cycling you iterate and use the feedback but you fail, then you get some sense of equilibrium and maturity, but these are human capabilities that are not so common in business, perhaps a missing capability is needed to succeed in business.

Re: Job Titles That Can Sink Your Startup

#40

Interesting points, but it reads like a parable, rather than something that actually happened. This is something that irritates me about business writing. Parable != evidence, since I construct a parable after the fact, to make a specific point. Also, like witty aphorisms, it's just as easy to support either side of an argument. E.g. "the early bird gets the worm" v.s "the second mouse gets the cheese".

We've been in the exact same position too!

Now we're at a stage where we do have a repeatable (hopefully highly scalable) sales model, with a seasoned sales guy making sales happen.

But some folks in the company are still on the "customer validation/development" mode :) So not out of the woods yet!

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