Live data from Hacker News

Eroom's law

en.wikipedia.org

31–36 of 36 posts

Re: Eroom's law

#31
post #14
post #13

As much as I'd like to avoid criticizing "moore's law", this is a good example of why we shouldn't be using the term unless the effect described is a properly scientific description of a universal truth. Both of these statements are mere observations of trends (short term ones in the grand scheme of things). Nothing about the trends observed in "eroom's law" must hold true in the future and, similarly, nothing about…

> There is no causality in either of these "laws", and that fact makes them mere observations of trends rather than proper scientific laws. There's a lot in science that's mere observation. The law of gravity is one example, since nobody knows where gravity actually comes from.

The law of gravity is not one example.

Moore's law does not pick up on any causal pattern that connects transistor size to time.

The universal law of gravitation does capture a causal pattern that connects masses to other masses.

Whether we "know" what causes gravity or otherwise is irrelevant.

Re: Eroom's law

#32
post #27

sounds like NASA and governmental space programs. I mean it feels like the cost and complexity of, for example, flying to Moon has been doubling each decade or so since the original Apollo days and have reached today the levels of practical impossibility. (And that state of things set the stage for Musk).

I fear it's the willingness to make massive public investments that has dwindled.

Going to space was never cheap, and I doubt it has ever been cheaper than it is today

Re: Eroom's law

#33
Moore's law was quite an outlier in the history of technology, and one thing that kept it going is that the returns kept up with the cost of the increasingly complex technology that it demanded.

The paragraph that dismisses the 'low hanging fruit' explanation of Eroom's law looks rather weak to me - it says there are still many potential targets, but does not consider their technical feasibility, cost or potential ROI.

Re: Eroom's law

#34
post #29
post #13

As much as I'd like to avoid criticizing "moore's law", this is a good example of why we shouldn't be using the term unless the effect described is a properly scientific description of a universal truth. Both of these statements are mere observations of trends (short term ones in the grand scheme of things). Nothing about the trends observed in "eroom's law" must hold true in the future and, similarly, nothing about…

In both cases there is a described mechanism which produces the effects that are observed. In the case of Moore's law the mechanism has now been thwarted by physics, everyone knew that this had to happen at some point, but the surprise was how long physics was staved off by clever engineering. In the case of Eroom's law the mechanisms seem strong, regulators will continue to strengthen or at least remain as strong, n…

I agree on all points. I merely wish to point out that the proper term for these is "strong trends" not "scientific law".

Scientific laws typically do support a tendency or trend in effect but the accurate description of a present trend is not sufficient to call the observation a "law". To consider that upgrade we need universality and persistence.

The fact that we know Moore's "law" and Eroom's "law" must both stop working at some point in the relatively near future means that they both fail this test.

Re: Eroom's law

#35
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possibly irrelevant correlation: This is pattern is also observed in graphics techniques and programming styles. Yet, the incremental quantitative advances continue to accumulate to become qualitative differences.

While modifications of existing classes of antibiotics are still critically important and useful, the big problem is that "new antibiotics that conform to established classes are often subject to at least some of the same resistances observed in previous members of the class."[0] They help in that they buy time, but development of novel classes of antibiotics is what's necessary to buy more time. And we're going to n…

>we need to continually to develop novel ones

That hits pretty close to what I think I am seeing here.

There are a few assumptions built in to Eroom's "law" which I think we have learned to avoid when looking at Moore's "law".

One is that we will not come up with an alternate or more effective way to address the problems drugs are currently addressing. Another is that we will not come up with a drastically cheaper or more effective way to invent new novel drugs. Still another is that we will not invent a drastically cheaper or more effective way to verify a drug's usefulness and safety.

With Moore's observation, I think people have learned to assume that any observable slow down will be corrected by the invention of some previously unimaginable technique or other machine that will keep things on track. (nothing really makes this have to be true, but we seem to think of it that way)

Similarly, any number of future inventions could completely reverse Eroom's observation.

As we get better at editing genomes, making nanomachines, and increasing the resolution of 3d printers, previously impossible techniques may suddenly make it easy to invent novel drugs, address the same issues without drugs, or change the game in any number of other hard-to-predict ways.

Given these increasingly plausible possibilities, I am inclined to see Eroom's "law" as the mere observation of a relatively short lived trend in human history.

Re: Eroom's law

#36
To some degree isn't this expected? I mean, if real gdp growth is 1 or 2 percent per year why wouldn't some of that go to drug prices? Plus, why wouldn't this just be a preference thing?

I think the underlying assumption is that more money is being spent for drugs that are equivalent. Is that reasonable or provable assumption?

Post reply on HN