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Why is Ember fading away?

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Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#31

Post by atonse »

I still strongly favor Ember for exactly the reasons React and other frameworks simply haven't caught up: the out of the box experience.

I can start building an actual app within 3 minutes of typing "ember new" – with React, I'd spend the first couple of days just fiddling around with build scripts.

Sure, there are now react boilerplates that do this, but there are too many out there to properly evaluate what to use. Why not just make it a part of the framework?

I think one of the reasons React has been successful is that most developers inherently enjoy the actual act of tinkering as much as they do actually building something. They are ok with spending the first 72 hours of their project picking and setting up their build tools.

On the other hand, I can't stand that stuff.

That's what's so weird to me about all this. Ember is to front end JS exactly what Rails was. Yet rails was successful and Ember wasn't. I think it's the difference between front-end culture and back-end culture.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#32

Post by abledon »

I'm just going to say it: Their mascot was an annoying hamster.

This was their downfall.

Angular, sexy geometric design. React, sexy nuclear design. Vue, Sexy V geometric design. Ember, a big goofy rodent looking at you lol. "But abledon, what about GOlang? they have a rodent too?" Yes but golang resides in backend land where designers and frontend visual brains are lacking, only performance matters, doesnt matter if your framework's logo is a steaming pile of poo, if its fast and easy to write concurrent code in, it will win the backend holy wars.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#33

Post by anoncoward778 »

heckanoobs wrote: post #16

I think there is a lot of tribalism in the js community and liking one framework (often the one you use for work) is synonymous with hating the others. Take this survey done where the people who have "heard of Ember and would NOT use it" is completely outsized with the rest of the data. ( https://stateofjs.com/2017/front-end/results/ ) I've been developing professionally for 15 years and even in that short a time I'v…

A fellow 15+ year developer here. I concur. Well said.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#34

Post by tboyd47 »

> What are your thoughts? What, if anything, should be done to make Ember relevant in the JavaScript horizon again?

As a total outsider to Ember, but an insider in the JS community, having worked in various web-dev roles for 10 years and served as tech lead on a full-stack ReactJS app, my recommendation is to double down on production of junior developers (yes, I said "production" instead of education, and that is how you should look at it; producing capable workers).

High barrier to entry is the Achilles' Heel of ReactJS. It's in a very similar position to Ruby on Rails five years ago. If you want to kill React, go for the low-hanging fruit: the juniors. Take a lesson from Python. It doesn't matter how old you are; capture Programming 101 and the future is yours.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#35

Post by atonse »

dustingetz wrote: post #19

Ember felt very Rails-y to me. The ember community felt entrenched in rails, and rails is reaching end-of-life. It is old-school thought. Ember made existing ideas better, a 2x gain maybe. I want new ideas, the 100x leap.

And have you found that yet?

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#36

Post by ythn »

abledon wrote: post #32

I'm just going to say it: Their mascot was an annoying hamster. This was their downfall. Angular, sexy geometric design. React, sexy nuclear design. Vue, Sexy V geometric design. Ember, a big goofy rodent looking at you lol. "But abledon, what about GOlang? they have a rodent too?" Yes but golang resides in backend land where designers and frontend visual brains are lacking, only performance matters, doesnt matter if…

This is probably the same reason GitLab transitioned from a goofy looking mspaint mongoose to a slick angular logo

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#37

Post by davedx »

atonse wrote: post #31

I still strongly favor Ember for exactly the reasons React and other frameworks simply haven't caught up: the out of the box experience. I can start building an actual app within 3 minutes of typing "ember new" – with React, I'd spend the first couple of days just fiddling around with build scripts. Sure, there are now react boilerplates that do this, but there are too many out there to properly evaluate what to use.…

> I can start building an actual app within 3 minutes of typing "ember new" – with React, I'd spend the first couple of days just fiddling around with build scripts.

> Sure, there are now react boilerplates that do this, but there are too many out there to properly evaluate what to use. Why not just make it a part of the framework?

create-react-app [1] is the official out-of-the-box CLI for React apps. It's maintained by the React team and has been around for a while now too. I may occasionally disagree with what gets included (e.g. service workers) but overall it's been a massive bootstrapping productivity booster for me.

[1] https://github.com/facebook/create-react-app

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#38

Post by anoncoward778 »

coldtea wrote: post #25
heckanoobs wrote: post #16

I think there is a lot of tribalism in the js community and liking one framework (often the one you use for work) is synonymous with hating the others. Take this survey done where the people who have "heard of Ember and would NOT use it" is completely outsized with the rest of the data. ( https://stateofjs.com/2017/front-end/results/ ) I've been developing professionally for 15 years and even in that short a time I'v…

> I think there is a lot of tribalism in the js community and liking one framework (often the one you use for work) is synonymous with hating the others. As in nature in general, it helps, from an evolutionary standpoint. Having too many, and letting them all be, instead of people rooting for their favorite and having one or two emerge as the leaders, leads to dispersion of resources, confusion for newcomers, and mul…

You have literally said....nothing. And 5/5 is 1 genius.

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#39

Post by theodorton »

atonse wrote: post #31

I still strongly favor Ember for exactly the reasons React and other frameworks simply haven't caught up: the out of the box experience. I can start building an actual app within 3 minutes of typing "ember new" – with React, I'd spend the first couple of days just fiddling around with build scripts. Sure, there are now react boilerplates that do this, but there are too many out there to properly evaluate what to use.…

> Sure, there are now react boilerplates that do this, but there are too many out there to properly evaluate what to use. Why not just make it a part of the framework?

Isn't this what `create-react-app` is supposed to solve?

Re: Why is Ember fading away?

#40

Post by jdavila90 »

abledon wrote: post #32

I'm just going to say it: Their mascot was an annoying hamster. This was their downfall. Angular, sexy geometric design. React, sexy nuclear design. Vue, Sexy V geometric design. Ember, a big goofy rodent looking at you lol. "But abledon, what about GOlang? they have a rodent too?" Yes but golang resides in backend land where designers and frontend visual brains are lacking, only performance matters, doesnt matter if…

I love Ember and I do think it's the best framework out there. That said, I agree that this is a large part of the lack of market penetration
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