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Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

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31–40 of 98 posts

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#31
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a firm like Knight?

Cleared themselves. I'd be shocked if any company in the world would act as counterparty to a trade that hedged 'operational risk at Knight scale'. One of the thing many of us in the industry at the time commented on, was how little was done to bail Knight out. Other than the 'oligarchy' argument that states that the old timers hated them (they did) the argument I subscribed to was, they weren't systematically import…

"If you just hurt yourself, nobody cares. If hurting yourself hurts others, then other people care." That's pretty cold-blooded and brutal, but it does make some sense...

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#32
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's a good scaling rule. the person with $50 dollars is likely clueless and stumbling around trying to figure out what the rules are. The person with $50 billion can do serious damage when they screw up. The rules in place are exactly backwards. the $50 dollar team is held to a high standard, with no affordances. the $50 billion dollar team is part of the club, so enforcers look the other way when they sc…

It is not backwards at all. Corporations are made up of a ton of people, there's no one person you can lay blame on. Some guy fucks up and costs a firm half a bil with a computer error, that's not something you want to just allow to happen. A dude losing $50? Give me a break, his risk is his own. Consider his $50 a small price to pay for learning how things work. And let me remind you, it is a very small price.

I love this. This is the ultimate wisdom of crowds hack.

Have a thousand people throw in a thousand bucks, each one selects an option play to purchase. Randomly select the purchase. If the play is profitable, keep the money. if it's a loss get the trade reverted because 'a lot of people were involved in the process.' I can make the process as convoluted an necessary to meet your 'no one person you can lay blame on' rule.

I think that's a stupid rule, because it's so easy to hack.

The more money staked on a trade, the higher the threshold should be to roll it back. More people mean more chances to catch the error, not the other way around.

edit

also, the corporation itself is the person that takes the blame. if it can't manage itself, it shouldn't manage your money.

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#33
> The cause? A coder had mistakenly programmed a router to send placeholder bids as live orders. If not for the good graces of the options exchanges, the bank would have lost $500 million, according to the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission. Cancellations and price adjustments reduced that to $38 million

It's interesting to read the full SEC report because it's a little more complicated than that: https://www.sec.gov/litigation/admin/2015/34-75331.pdf

It basically outlines a cascade of failure in controls, bad configuration defaults, and poor SDLC. In particular:

>In addition, the firm’s operation and management of its electronic “circuit breakers” did not effectively block the erroneous orders sent on August 20. These circuit breakers existed to prevent erroneous orders by halting all message traffic to the exchanges once that traffic had exceeded a certain rate. However, on August 20, the firm’s control personnel repeatedly lifted the circuit breakers blocks between 8:44 a.m. and 9:32 a.m., thereby permitting additional erroneous orders to be sent to the exchanges. Before lifting the circuit breaker blocks, the control personnel did not obtain authorization from the responsible technology employees, as required under written firm policies.

>The firm’s policies relating to the manual “lifting” of those circuit breakers were not disseminated to or fully understood by the employees responsible for deciding when the circuit breakers should be lifted, and, prior to August 20, 2013, GSCO personnel had lifted circuit breaker blocks shortly after learning of the block and while still investigating the cause of the circuit breaker trip.

From what I remember, this circuit breaker was notorious for raising so many false positives that control personnel just got used to lifting it without thinking.

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#34
post #20

I personally feel we need to change the way exchanges operate. Too much emphasis exists on speed of execution. We must consider alternative auction formats where speed of execution is not the only criteria for matching an order, as it gives rise to masses of spam generated by a thundering herd of traders as they all try and fulfill the same opportunity.

There is a full crossing auction held every time a stock is started, stopped, or restarted. You can just trade those if you want.

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#35
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not backwards at all. Corporations are made up of a ton of people, there's no one person you can lay blame on. Some guy fucks up and costs a firm half a bil with a computer error, that's not something you want to just allow to happen. A dude losing $50? Give me a break, his risk is his own. Consider his $50 a small price to pay for learning how things work. And let me remind you, it is a very small price.

I love this. This is the ultimate wisdom of crowds hack. Have a thousand people throw in a thousand bucks, each one selects an option play to purchase. Randomly select the purchase. If the play is profitable, keep the money. if it's a loss get the trade reverted because 'a lot of people were involved in the process.' I can make the process as convoluted an necessary to meet your 'no one person you can lay blame on' r…

....what? Your logic is truly frightening. Are you saying this is a regularly occurring event and that they deliberately did this? Do you have any idea of the scale and complexity and risk of the code they have deployed? This shit understandably happens. There is no "more people means mistakes don't happen" in any organization on the planet.

There is no "whether or not who should morally be able to roll back a trade". There is a "hey, we are a customer of your business, we do a lot of business together and I make you a lot of money. We had a once in a blue moon mistake in our billions of lines of code, can you help us out. Other banks are watching and there are plenty of other exchanges to do business with"

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#36
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine coming back from lunch, you start to unwrap your sandwich at your desk. Then, your boss walks by and throws your sandwich across the room and explains while you were out your bug caused 440 million dollars of erroneous trades - and the company now no longer exists. https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-...

> your bug Knight had a terrible software delivery process and a lot of deadline-oriented pressure on techies.

Strongly concur

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#37
post #22
post #20

I personally feel we need to change the way exchanges operate. Too much emphasis exists on speed of execution. We must consider alternative auction formats where speed of execution is not the only criteria for matching an order, as it gives rise to masses of spam generated by a thundering herd of traders as they all try and fulfill the same opportunity.

What do you suggest? What features would you use to give priority to a trade?

The standard response here is Budish’s auction system:

https://bfi.uchicago.edu/research/working-paper/high-frequen...

Personally I think it glosses over lots of the reality of the markets but I’m ready for country to try it to see.

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#38
post #20

I personally feel we need to change the way exchanges operate. Too much emphasis exists on speed of execution. We must consider alternative auction formats where speed of execution is not the only criteria for matching an order, as it gives rise to masses of spam generated by a thundering herd of traders as they all try and fulfill the same opportunity.

[deleted]

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#39
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and that's a good scaling rule. the person with $50 dollars is likely clueless and stumbling around trying to figure out what the rules are. The person with $50 billion can do serious damage when they screw up. The rules in place are exactly backwards. the $50 dollar team is held to a high standard, with no affordances. the $50 billion dollar team is part of the club, so enforcers look the other way when they sc…

It is not backwards at all. Corporations are made up of a ton of people, there's no one person you can lay blame on. Some guy fucks up and costs a firm half a bil with a computer error, that's not something you want to just allow to happen. A dude losing $50? Give me a break, his risk is his own. Consider his $50 a small price to pay for learning how things work. And let me remind you, it is a very small price.

[deleted]

Re: Wall Street’s Big Banks Are Waging a Technological Arms Race

#40

> Bam. Bam. Bam. Dummy trade signals that were supposed to stay within the company’s electronic systems broke loose and slammed into computers at the New York Stock Exchange’s options markets. So many orders crashed through that by 8:44 a.m., safeguards within Goldman Sachs sprang into action, severing the connection between the company and the exchanges. Anyone whose built a trading system lives with this type of fe…

Imagine coming back from lunch, you start to unwrap your sandwich at your desk. Then, your boss walks by and throws your sandwich across the room and explains while you were out your bug caused 440 million dollars of erroneous trades - and the company now no longer exists. https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2012/08/02/knight-capital-says-...

It might not be a coincidence that it's common in financial firms to have lunch brought to your desk.
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