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Swedes turn against cashlessness

theguardian.com

31–40 of 357 posts

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#31
Cashless transactions require a third party to give permission for the transaction, typically in real-time.

It's completely normal to be "basically okay" with that... I use cards/apps to pay on a regular basis. However, it's a long haul between "okay with cashless transactions being a popular payment method", and "eliminating cash."

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#32
post #25
post #8

I wonder what effect would cashless society have on saving habits. Would more people buy gold? Stocks? Bitcoin?

Couldnt people still save "cash" electronically in a savings account, say?

What's the nominal/real yield on that account? When savings rates are negative nominal (which cashless may presage) or negative real, the carry on hard assets becomes positive, making them more attractive.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#33

Note that apart from privacy issues and technical problems (Puerto Rico blackout, anybody?) numerous studies indicate that people spend less money when using cash instead of credit cards. That's one reason for the big push by the banks, shops, restaurants, and media to "go cashless".

[deleted]

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to input the amount into the POS so it can start the transaction as well. Sellers here (Greece) are so used to this (they do it thousands of times a day) that it takes them almost no time to give change back. It helps that change is always segregated into proper trays/slots. Even with contactless, I always feel kind of bad to be paying by card at the super market because I'm slowing the queue down. If the am…

You have to input the amount into the POS so it can start the transaction as well Where are you buying that has payment queues but doesn't scan the products? I only see people inputting the amount manually in restaurants/bars.

Where are you buying that you have to enter the amount into the POS to open the drawer but not to start the card transaction?

You can't consider the time it takes to enter the amount only in the case that suits you. If you have to enter the amount for cash, you have to enter it for the card as well.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#35

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

Simple, it's easier to pocket some money when you do it in cash. Going on a limb here, the cafes and bars you've frequented aren't the well established with a long history-kind.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#36

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

Germans are very paranoid about giving their details to anyone: government, banks, corporations, other people. Paying with cash is viewed as a safer way to pay without any number of Big Brothers watching over your shoulder.

(The reason for paranoia is the history of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi)

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#37
post #14

As an American, now living in Europe I cannot understand the pushback against cashless systems. In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. I understand there is a slight charge to the vendor when charging to a credit or bank card, but the amount of time and energy saved by having "exact change" every transaction should increase productivity enough to cover any costs.

> In Germany almost every cafe, restaurant, or bar requires you pay with cash. We must be living in very different Germanys.

I'm living in optimusrex Germany, too. You might be alone in cashless Germany.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#38

Note that apart from privacy issues and technical problems (Puerto Rico blackout, anybody?) numerous studies indicate that people spend less money when using cash instead of credit cards. That's one reason for the big push by the banks, shops, restaurants, and media to "go cashless".

I'd argue that this is good for the economy. Economies are strong when money is changing hands a lot. If people hoard all their pennies, then money isn't changing hands, business isn't growing, and the economy stagnates.

And I'd argue there that, to some degree, it's a matter of breadth of spending and not just depth. Money may or may not trickle down, but it certainly gushes upward. So as an obvious example a thousand people selling something for $10 a piece instead of 1 person selling something for $10,000 is obviously much more desirable. I'd speculate that tactics like this won't really increase the breadth of spend, but only the depth - so you simply accelerate the upward flow of income.

That could hypothetically be a good thing, invoking my inner Milton Friedman, if those on top then use that groundswell of 'free' money to then reinvest in their business and everybody moves upward. However in this case, as opposed to general supply side economics at large, you need to show that that subsequent trickle down is more beneficial than what was removed from those at the bottom. I think that's going to be improbable, especially as the merit of supply side economics itself becomes ever more debatable.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#39

Note that apart from privacy issues and technical problems (Puerto Rico blackout, anybody?) numerous studies indicate that people spend less money when using cash instead of credit cards. That's one reason for the big push by the banks, shops, restaurants, and media to "go cashless".

I'd argue that this is good for the economy. Economies are strong when money is changing hands a lot. If people hoard all their pennies, then money isn't changing hands, business isn't growing, and the economy stagnates.

On the other hand, back to talking about real people, the less you feel like you have a sufficient buffer to last until your next paycheck, the more stressed you are. If we psychologically manipulate people into spending more than they’re naturally comfortable with, we’re creating a society that’s worse off for the people in it.

Re: Swedes turn against cashlessness

#40

Note that apart from privacy issues and technical problems (Puerto Rico blackout, anybody?) numerous studies indicate that people spend less money when using cash instead of credit cards. That's one reason for the big push by the banks, shops, restaurants, and media to "go cashless".

I'd argue that this is good for the economy. Economies are strong when money is changing hands a lot. If people hoard all their pennies, then money isn't changing hands, business isn't growing, and the economy stagnates.

Pointlessly spending more money than necessary probably isn't good for your health as an individual though, and arguably the push to get more people to spend more money more often isn't good for a society. It might be good for their economy, but economy ≠ society.

If you really just want to inflate the amount of money being spent, there's always room for more rent-seekers and debt collectors.

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