Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 74 posts

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#31

Post by efdee »

primitur wrote: post #10

The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers. This is going to be a much more difficult precipice to step back from than, say, the rampant piracy of things like Napster, and so on. We'll definitely have to push…

No, the elephant is definitely Facebook and friends.

"Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers." - Say what? Most people aren't looking to capitalize/profit on anything, they just want to share bits of their life with others that they count as their friends.

Most people are definitely not aware of what happens behind the curtains. The fact that there's a big gorilla in the room watching everything they post and profiting of that is the problem.

And that gorilla is Facebook.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#32

Post by primitur »

efdee wrote: post #31
primitur wrote: post #10

The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers. This is going to be a much more difficult precipice to step back from than, say, the rampant piracy of things like Napster, and so on. We'll definitely have to push…

No, the elephant is definitely Facebook and friends. "Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers." - Say what? Most people aren't looking to capitalize/profit on anything, they just want to share bits of their life with others that they count as their…

Facebook wouldn't be such a bully if it didn't have so many willing victims, throwing themselves at its maw. There is a market for industrialized narcissism/solipsism .. but what came first - Facebook, or the narcissist? I believe its the latter, but I'm willing to concede that Facebook - as well as others - have definitely fomented this market.

Right now, we have to deal with the Facebook dystopia. But, it won't go away if we just shut down Facebook. We need to work on the reasons for the cultural and social proclivity towards allowing the usurpation of our basic human rights. Do most of us even know what our human rights are?

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#33

Post by machinehermit »

dominotw wrote: post #23

how do they facebook is struggling? Their numbers might have been unaffected by all the scandals, for all we know. Remember all the articles about 'Toxic Struggling Uber' , turns out no one really cared and their numbers didn't change much.

I think it is reflection of the total bubbles people live in.

I have facebook and not a single person has deleted their account. Honestly, I doubt any of my friends on facebook know or care about this "movement".

It is just some goofy form of entertainment for young people who waste too much time on twitter.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#34

Post by TAForObvReasons »

primitur wrote: post #32
efdee wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the elephant is definitely Facebook and friends. "Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers." - Say what? Most people aren't looking to capitalize/profit on anything, they just want to share bits of their life with others that they count as their…

Facebook wouldn't be such a bully if it didn't have so many willing victims, throwing themselves at its maw. There is a market for industrialized narcissism/solipsism .. but what came first - Facebook, or the narcissist? I believe its the latter, but I'm willing to concede that Facebook - as well as others - have definitely fomented this market. Right now, we have to deal with the Facebook dystopia. But, it won't go…

There are "honest" ways to run a social network, which don't involve taking every ethically-dubious money-making opportunity. It should never have been appropriate to collaborate with a political campaign beyond the standard corporate arrangements.

This isn't a problem with Facebook as it is a problem with Zuckerberg and the executives of Facebook, who think these behaviors are acceptable in the first place.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#35

Post by primitur »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #34
primitur wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook wouldn't be such a bully if it didn't have so many willing victims, throwing themselves at its maw. There is a market for industrialized narcissism/solipsism .. but what came first - Facebook, or the narcissist? I believe its the latter, but I'm willing to concede that Facebook - as well as others - have definitely fomented this market. Right now, we have to deal with the Facebook dystopia. But, it won't go…

There are "honest" ways to run a social network, which don't involve taking every ethically-dubious money-making opportunity. It should never have been appropriate to collaborate with a political campaign beyond the standard corporate arrangements. This isn't a problem with Facebook as it is a problem with Zuckerberg and the executives of Facebook, who think these behaviors are acceptable in the first place.

If our culture didn't promote narcissistic/solipsism as much as it does, above all others, perhaps these execs wouldn't be so inclined.

Yes, its an ethics issue. I don't disagree that Facebook have stepped over the line. But we have to face the truth of the matter, which is that our society encouraged them to do so - and allowed it to happen - and is continuing the slide down the slippery slope towards totalitarian oblivion. Facebook isn't going to fix that for us, nor would it be fixed if we nuked the Facebook campus from orbit, to be sure.

Which is why I think there has to be an ethical, and technological means perhaps, by which we can enact the social change required to bring us out of this conundrum. Just the way that social change was brought about by culture revolution, itself the product of some small incident perhaps, we have to find that means. I don't know what it is, but I start now to think of what a 'decent' social network would be like .. don't you?

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#36

Post by daveid »

primitur wrote: post #10

The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers. This is going to be a much more difficult precipice to step back from than, say, the rampant piracy of things like Napster, and so on. We'll definitely have to push…

>The elephant in the room is not Facebook.

Can you really say "elephant in the room" in a thread about social media and not mention Mastodon[1]? That's a facebook rival that's not staying mum...

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPSbNdBmWKE

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#37

Post by shanev »

primitur wrote: post #10

The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers. This is going to be a much more difficult precipice to step back from than, say, the rampant piracy of things like Napster, and so on. We'll definitely have to push…

There was a social network like this called Famspam, but it pivoted to something called Github.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#38

Post by watwut »

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #34
primitur wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook wouldn't be such a bully if it didn't have so many willing victims, throwing themselves at its maw. There is a market for industrialized narcissism/solipsism .. but what came first - Facebook, or the narcissist? I believe its the latter, but I'm willing to concede that Facebook - as well as others - have definitely fomented this market. Right now, we have to deal with the Facebook dystopia. But, it won't go…

There are "honest" ways to run a social network, which don't involve taking every ethically-dubious money-making opportunity. It should never have been appropriate to collaborate with a political campaign beyond the standard corporate arrangements. This isn't a problem with Facebook as it is a problem with Zuckerberg and the executives of Facebook, who think these behaviors are acceptable in the first place.

> This isn't a problem with Facebook as it is a problem with Zuckerberg and the executives of Facebook, who think these behaviors are acceptable in the first place.

The issue is not so much that this particular group of people think about what is acceptable. It is that people who don't think that behavior like this is acceptable are significantly less likely to amass as much power. Not just that, but they are also less likely to be listened to, because they are not successful enough.

Being ethical is competitive disadvantage and we live in world that values winning over competition and having financial success way more then it values being ethical.

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#39

Post by musage »

throwaway84742 wrote: post #26
prolikewhoa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's turning into Russiophobia. Criticism of Putin and the Government, fine, understandable. When you start bringing the language, culture, and innocent people just trying to get by into it and start picking fun at it, that's not OK. The same people who are OK with this are appalled at the similar right wing/4chan generalizations about Israel and Jewish people.

There’s plenty of “americanifobia” on the other end. But I think in both countries the extent of the problem is wildly exaggerated by observers. The vast majority of normal people don’t really fear or hate the entire other people. It may be trendy or “socially acceptable” for them to say they do, but deep down they understand it’s all propaganda and bullshit. More generally, the quantity of fucks anybody gives about…

> It may be trendy or “socially acceptable” for them to say they do, but deep down they understand it’s all propaganda and bullshit.

Do you really believe that, or is it just socially acceptable to say it so you figured why not?

Re: As Facebook Struggles, Rivals’ Leaders Stay Mostly Mum

#40

Post by sattoshi »

daveid wrote: post #36
primitur wrote: post #10

The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Its the generations of people who have, over the last 10 years, grown up to assume that their personal lives are of interest to others, and wish therefore to capitalize/profit on exposing their life to strangers. This is going to be a much more difficult precipice to step back from than, say, the rampant piracy of things like Napster, and so on. We'll definitely have to push…

>The elephant in the room is not Facebook. Can you really say "elephant in the room" in a thread about social media and not mention Mastodon[1]? That's a facebook rival that's not staying mum... [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPSbNdBmWKE

Literally nobody mentioned it to me except on HN. Nobody I know uses it.
Post reply on HN