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Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

docs.docker.com

31–40 of 155 posts

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#31
We are extremely worried about the future of Docker Swarm as well. We love Swarm - but we are seeing most work out of the Docker team is to give a migration path to kubernetes. A huge number of docker swarm networking bugs are not being worked on.

We will be happy if Docker talks about Swarm becoming a management UX for K8s - but we need visibility. These are production orchestration systems. The migration path is not easy.

And seeing what Docker Co is doing with Cloud, it is not very comforting to trust that they will do the right thing with Swarm.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#32
post #10

Wasn't the whole point of docker containers that deploys and migrations are a breeze?

Docker cloud offered CI/CD integrations and management features similar to K8S that were proprietary to them. While Docker images themselves are portable, this is a whole different beast.

It seems like they are only discontinuing the hosted swarm part for now and keeping the rest up. That said, it may just be a matter of time before the great of the stuff goes down.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#33
post #8

People, yours truly included, seem a bit concerned with the 2 months notice. To be fair docker cloud was never great and hopefully it doesn't have many big customers... But the precedence of shutting down a paid service with 2 months notice is not nice. What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic!

> What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic! Isn't docker hub relatively easy to replace, in comparison? Otherwise, is this a wakeup call perhaps?

docker hub is surprisingly difficult to replace because of how docker registries work.

Traditional package managers have two distinct concepts: a repository and packages within those repositories.

For example, if ubuntu took down their apt repo server, I could run my own with all the same packages and change a single sources.list entry and all my servers, ansible roles installing packages, etc, would operate the same.

This is possible because the package name+version is an identifier everything else uses and the only thing that cares about the repository is apt itself; all other tooling doesn't need to know about the repository the package is sourced from.

Docker conflates those two things. Each client doesn't just send a package name, it sends a url + package name + version (e.g. foo.registryurl.com/image:version). Because every single client has the detail of "foo.registryurl.com" baked in, it's difficult to change that. I can't change a single "repository-mapping" file that the docker daemon reads to quickly update it.

Instead, I have to update every single client.

The idea of decoupling those is not new. In 2014 it was proposed [1], and various implementations that would help make it easier to migrate off the default registry have been proposed and rejected [2]

This doesn't even get into the lack of tooling for chasing down the transitive dependencies building my images has on various registries with each FROM.

[1]: https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/8329

[2]: https://github.com/moby/moby/pull/5821#issuecomment-49492924

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#34

We are extremely worried about the future of Docker Swarm as well. We love Swarm - but we are seeing most work out of the Docker team is to give a migration path to kubernetes. A huge number of docker swarm networking bugs are not being worked on. We will be happy if Docker talks about Swarm becoming a management UX for K8s - but we need visibility. These are production orchestration systems. The migration path is no…

I had to make a decision for an orchestration tool a few weeks ago and I went with K8s. One of the main reasons was that even Docker advertises it on its website and with Docker for Mac. I expect Swarm support to be canceled in a not so distant future and I cannot rely on a tool with an unclear future.

Which is a pity because I really liked Swarm for its simplicity.

Side note: I am also concerned about Docker in general. CE/EE split, services shutting down, bugs seemingly not being fixed - I cannot point out a precise aspect, but I am concerned.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#35
post #8

People, yours truly included, seem a bit concerned with the 2 months notice. To be fair docker cloud was never great and hopefully it doesn't have many big customers... But the precedence of shutting down a paid service with 2 months notice is not nice. What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic!

> What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic! Isn't docker hub relatively easy to replace, in comparison? Otherwise, is this a wakeup call perhaps?

The registry itself can be self-hosted easily, however everything on top (authentication, web UI, automation, ...) is surprisingly difficult. Plus technical challenges as pointed out by other commenters.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#36

Twitter users are up in arms because of the decision to retire production systems with a 2 months notice - https://twitter.com/thomashermine/status/976398123215065088 https://twitter.com/garethdiz/status/976188140670017536 https://twitter.com/LenioLabsLLC/status/976201790482915328

> Twitter users People . People are up in arms. Anyway, yeah, that's insane. Even Google, who constantly shuts stuff down, usually does so with way more heads up. For comparison, Google Reader, a completely free service, shut down with 3.5 months advance notice. Google Wave got almost 6 months notice.

> Google Reader

It still hurts.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#37
post #8

People, yours truly included, seem a bit concerned with the 2 months notice. To be fair docker cloud was never great and hopefully it doesn't have many big customers... But the precedence of shutting down a paid service with 2 months notice is not nice. What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic!

I could see github adding a tab to repos as for a container registry. That would destroy docker hub imo.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#39
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic! Isn't docker hub relatively easy to replace, in comparison? Otherwise, is this a wakeup call perhaps?

The registry itself can be self-hosted easily, however everything on top (authentication, web UI, automation, ...) is surprisingly difficult. Plus technical challenges as pointed out by other commenters.

GitLab includes a full docker registry, with all that.

Just run a custom GitLab instance, and you get all that for free.

For my open source projects on git.kuschku.de I also have a gitlab container registry on k8r.eu, and it’s been amazing to work with.

Re: Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21

#40
post #34

We are extremely worried about the future of Docker Swarm as well. We love Swarm - but we are seeing most work out of the Docker team is to give a migration path to kubernetes. A huge number of docker swarm networking bugs are not being worked on. We will be happy if Docker talks about Swarm becoming a management UX for K8s - but we need visibility. These are production orchestration systems. The migration path is no…

I had to make a decision for an orchestration tool a few weeks ago and I went with K8s. One of the main reasons was that even Docker advertises it on its website and with Docker for Mac. I expect Swarm support to be canceled in a not so distant future and I cannot rely on a tool with an unclear future. Which is a pity because I really liked Swarm for its simplicity. Side note: I am also concerned about Docker in gene…

Who’s beating them? Amazon?
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