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New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

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Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#31

Post by orangecat »

ramzyo wrote: post #16

I’m sorry but I just can’t line up my daily observations of some bikers’ and ebikers’ dangerous behavior in NYC vs that of drivers (who admittedly I have also seen drive dangerously) and the data often cited showing that drivers break just as many laws. Call this some fallacy of observation or confirmation bias or whatever, but I see bikers biking the wrong way weaving between traffic on NYC streets, running red ligh…

the data often cited showing that drivers break just as many laws

I think it's that drivers break laws in more predictable ways. They may run red lights in the first few seconds, not come to complete stops when required, and aggressively try to turn right on red. But for pedestrians, those actions are easier to foresee and protect against than the minority of cyclists who completely ignore traffic laws.

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#32

Post by dpark »

ramzyo wrote: post #16

I’m sorry but I just can’t line up my daily observations of some bikers’ and ebikers’ dangerous behavior in NYC vs that of drivers (who admittedly I have also seen drive dangerously) and the data often cited showing that drivers break just as many laws. Call this some fallacy of observation or confirmation bias or whatever, but I see bikers biking the wrong way weaving between traffic on NYC streets, running red ligh…

> * and the data often cited showing that drivers break just as many laws.*

I’m also doubtful and suspect that the data is essentially cherry picked. Relative to distance travelled, I suspect cyclists do indeed break traffic laws more frequently. Especially if “severity” of violation is accounted for.

i.e. There’s often some jackass in a car who runs the red light shortly after it changes. However, despite the blatant law violation, it’s not that dangerous because it happens immediately after the light change and for better or worse, people expect it. Cyclists on the other hand will often blow through a light whenever they get there if they think they can make it through without getting hit, whether that’s right after the light changes or two minutes later. The car running the red light immediately after it changes is quite frequent but the cyclist running the light whenever it’s convenient is more egregious even if less frequent.

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#34

Post by skybrian »

dpark wrote: post #30
skybrian wrote: post #24

If delivery using cyclists is unsafe and they should slow down, it seems like the city has to go after the businesses that provide the incentive to speed. Maybe enforce a minimum elapsed time and price for a delivery? If they get there sooner, they have to wait for the next job.

In that case they’d simply carry multiple deliveries. And no one is going to support the “delivery food must be cold” ordinance anyway. I honestly applaud looking for more fruitful and effective areas to regulate, but in this case, I don’t think you found the appropriate target.

Of course it's never going to be that simple, but it seems like you have start with incentives if you're ever going to get anywhere. Services like GrubHub gather lots of data and it could be used to improve safety, but apparently isn't?

Maybe make the services partially liable for any accidents, and they'll make some changes in their routing?

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#35

Post by elp »

DrScump wrote: post #33

given that immigrant delivery workers tend to earn only around $10/hour That's below NYC minimum wage.

As someone who doesn't live in the USA I've always wondered: NYC (heavily DNC?) routinely seems to do things that are far more inhuman and racist than anything the GOP does, how come it never generates the same level of outcry?

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#36

Post by DrScump »

elp wrote: post #35
DrScump wrote: post #33

given that immigrant delivery workers tend to earn only around $10/hour That's below NYC minimum wage.

As someone who doesn't live in the USA I've always wondered: NYC (heavily DNC?) routinely seems to do things that are far more inhuman and racist than anything the GOP does, how come it never generates the same level of outcry?

  NYC routinely seems to do things
Are you blaming city government rather than crooked employers?

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#37

Post by masonic »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #27

I love how they're making it an "immigrant" issue and the gig-economy companies are "abdicating responsibility". Meanwhile actual residents of NYC are vehemently against how reckless and dangerous these people are. It's a good example of how agendas in the media have gotten out of control.

I don't think their narrative is helped by featuring someone who immigrated 16 years ago yet still doesn't speak English either.

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#38

Post by elp »

DrScump wrote: post #36
elp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who doesn't live in the USA I've always wondered: NYC (heavily DNC?) routinely seems to do things that are far more inhuman and racist than anything the GOP does, how come it never generates the same level of outcry?

NYC routinely seems to do things Are you blaming city government rather than crooked employers?

Employers will try get away with whatever they can. Why is the city not enforcing the law?

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#39

Post by JBlue42 »

t2riRXawYxLGGYb wrote: post #28
yogi123 wrote: post #19

I’m wondering how many commenters here actually live in NYC. Delivery bikes are a menace. A 20-something guy in my building recently started hopping around on crutches. Athletic guy. Got hit by a food delivery bike and fractured his leg. I have a near miss at least once a week. They’re like darts that pop out of nowhere even on sidewalks, at full speed, sometimes swerving at the last second. Zero respect for any traf…

I live in NYC and I bike every day. I have no problem with e-bikes and I think the fact that they are getting confiscated is extremely misguided given that they are receiving praise in many other cities as a smart alternative to cars. It's insane that the police in NYC are so concerned about these bikes killing people meanwhile there are dozens of bicyclists dying every year due to car accidents and virtually no bicy…

>I understand that bikes are more concerning than cars for pedestrians due to being quiet and going the wrong way, and I hate as much as the next guy.

We seem to be very against bells in the US.

Re: New York Is Confiscating Delivery Bikes, Hurting Immigrants, And Helping No One

#40

Post by CalRobert »

JBlue42 wrote: post #39
t2riRXawYxLGGYb wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in NYC and I bike every day. I have no problem with e-bikes and I think the fact that they are getting confiscated is extremely misguided given that they are receiving praise in many other cities as a smart alternative to cars. It's insane that the police in NYC are so concerned about these bikes killing people meanwhile there are dozens of bicyclists dying every year due to car accidents and virtually no bicy…

>I understand that bikes are more concerning than cars for pedestrians due to being quiet and going the wrong way, and I hate as much as the next guy. We seem to be very against bells in the US.

When I tell folks in the US my bike has a bell they say "psssh like a car will hear that" they always seem surprised when I point out it's more of a polite alert to people walking. Because who walks, after all?

Also without the constant deadening roar of internal combustion, bells are fairly audible.

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