What Airbnb Did to New York City • Hacker News Board

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#31

Post by stevenking86l » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

ironjunkie wrote: post #9

ForHackernews wrote: post #2

Manhattan should probably just admit that it's going to become the Venice of America: a playground for tourists and the ultra-rich, with virtually no residents. There's nothing wrong with that. They can tax the hell out of it and use it to fund services in the rest of the city where real people live.

Kind of agree with you. Don't even think living in Manhattan if you don't pull at least 150k$. (Or be ready for some of those roomshare situations). I'm also amazed by the average night price at Manhattan hotels. Even during normal weeks, the cheapest is well above 300$/night.

Lived in Manhattan for 6 years 2011-2017 in The East Village. Made about half that. 1 roommate. 2 bedroom. Occasionally worked a side job (tutoring) but was for extra cash more than necessity. I was working in the live music industry so I had free access to a lot of live shows around town which allowed me to save money but still do the things that make living in NYC Great.

It’s very possible.

Was kind to my landlord, and tried to fix whatever I could rather than calling her when I needed something. The goal was to have her forget I existed. Rent was raised $50 every other year which was completely manageable.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#32

Post by dantheman » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:08 PM UTC

kadenshep wrote: post #25

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

Ah yes, the "remove standards and everything will be better" mind set has always worked out in the past.

40% of buildings in manhattan couldn't be built today. Seems like the standards could be lowered.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/05/19/upshot/forty-...

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#33

Post by JBReefer » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:13 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #24

tootie wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's very, very few rent-controlled apartments left.

Rent control yes but rent stabilized no. Something like 1 million units are rent stabilized: https://ny.curbed.com/2017/4/13/15264890/nyc-apartments-guid...

As someone that had a good one, you do anything you can to hold onto them. 1% yearly increases in a gentrifying neighborhood is awesome

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#34

Post by ordinaryperson » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:15 PM UTC

svantana wrote: post #28

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

The density of NY is the cause of the high costs of living, making it even denser is unlikely to bring costs down long term. It would make more sense just to accept that living centrally is a luxury not everyone can afford, and instead channel the revenue away from the rent-seekers and into the hands of the public (i.e. by increasing property taxes).

From Crown Heights and Bed Stuy (two of the neighborhoods singled out in the article) it's about a 45-60 minute commute into Manhattan via the subway -- not exactly "living centrally." Are people supposed to live 2 hours out?

> instead channel the revenue away from the rent-seekers and into the hands of the public (i.e. by increasing property taxes)

Good luck getting that passed. And while I'm in favor of higher taxes on the land-owning elite almost half of NYC's income tax revenue is made up from 1% of its residents (https://nypost.com/2014/04/15/citys-one-percent-pay-larger-i...), about 35K people making > 600K. And income tax is about 2/3 of how NYS collects revenue (https://www.tax.ny.gov/research/collections/fy_collections_s...).

Raise taxes on them enough and they move to NJ or CT and it's actually a net loss for the city.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#35

Post by Spooky23 » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:16 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

NYC != Manhattan.

By taking residential units out of the market, affects of short term rentals are affecting rents in other boroughs as well.

NYC isn’t San Francisco. Rent control is a known quantity that has been around forever, as has been the lack of space in the NY Metro area. AirBnb and similar services bend the supply curve, hurting hotels and renters alike.

Short term rental growth didn’t create all problems, but it makes many worse.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#36

Post by teh_klev » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:18 PM UTC

matte_black wrote: post #26

teh_klev wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> expensive rent in a rural area is different than expensive rent in an urban one I fail to see the difference, maybe you could expand? > In a rural area, if it really comes down to it, people buy Folks are seeking affordable rents because affordable (and habitable) property to buy is pretty much non-existent. > or rent a plot of land and throw a prefab home or trailer on it. Perhaps in your country, good luck with g…

Bah, UK is so small it’s easy to see how it can be a problem. America has so much land available out there, some of it is incredibly cheap the farther you are from civilization, even almost free. I think I could buy several rolling acres of land for a couple thousand bucks right now.

I can really only speak with experience with regards to Scotland here. The problem isn't that we don't have enough land to build on. The problem is that there are vast tracts of land owned by a few large estates (many of them owned by off-shored companies in the usual Caribbean tax havens) that will never normally be available for sale. The land is wasted and misused for the benefit of a few very rich folks who want to turn up and blow away pheasants and grouse with their shotguns.

The remaining available/eligible land is held by large house builders in their "land banks". Some of these tracts of land have been off the market for years and years, yet nothing ever gets built on them until the house builder decides the time is right to screw the maximum price out of buyers.

I'm kinda hoping that when Scotland does finally become independent we will solve these problems with radical land ownership reform.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#37

Post by swarnie_ » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:22 PM UTC

TomV1971 wrote: post #22

ironjunkie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of agree with you. Don't even think living in Manhattan if you don't pull at least 150k$. (Or be ready for some of those roomshare situations). I'm also amazed by the average night price at Manhattan hotels. Even during normal weeks, the cheapest is well above 300$/night.

Last month I stayed a weekend at the Salisbury hotel right across Carnegie Hall for $180 per night. Nothing fancy, but a surprisingly big room at a prime location.

I stayed in this hotel in 2005. Is the constant sound of car horns 24 hours a day caused by the area or is that all of Manhattan?

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#38

Post by lr4444lr » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:27 PM UTC

ordinaryperson wrote: post #6

Easy to blame lack of affordable housing on AirBnB and not, say, rent control laws or the difficulty of building new housing stock in the city. I get not throwing grandma out of the $250/month 4BR she’s been living in for 50 years, but it means something like 200,000 rent-controlled/rent-stabilized units are also raising everyone else’s rent by decreasing inventory. The endless red tape in new construction makes non-…

Yes, but AirBnB poses a completely different kind of threat. If it's allowed to operate with impunity and turn the entire residential housing market into de-facto hotels, then landlords are going to start to ask why they should put up with tenants acting as their middlemen who reap all of the profit, tenants who are protected by strict and very generous regulations that make eviction and raising the rent difficult in the first place, not to mention the need for people to handle the paperwork, constant maintenance complaints, etc.

Let's say a one bedroom apartment in Manhattan can be found for as little as $2500 (likely very low), and that AirBnB going rate is $200/night for that same apartment (likely quite a bit higher in reality). They only need to rent the place for 12 nights a month to break even, and they're then free of the hassle of tenant law.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#39

Post by lr4444lr » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:29 PM UTC

ohgodmorecow wrote: post #29

ordinaryperson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By trying to force them out any way possible: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/05/opinion/sunday/how-to-for...

"upon completing the work, rented the place out for $2,900/month." Oh my god, how is it possible for anyone to pay that much? 2800$ is about the general income / month here.

Roommates. Very few single NYers in market apartments live by themselves. It's a status symbol, of sorts.

Re: What Airbnb Did to New York City

#40

Post by WingH » Thu, Mar 08, 2018, 1:32 PM UTC

stevenking86l wrote: post #31

ironjunkie wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of agree with you. Don't even think living in Manhattan if you don't pull at least 150k$. (Or be ready for some of those roomshare situations). I'm also amazed by the average night price at Manhattan hotels. Even during normal weeks, the cheapest is well above 300$/night.

Lived in Manhattan for 6 years 2011-2017 in The East Village. Made about half that. 1 roommate. 2 bedroom. Occasionally worked a side job (tutoring) but was for extra cash more than necessity. I was working in the live music industry so I had free access to a lot of live shows around town which allowed me to save money but still do the things that make living in NYC Great. It’s very possible. Was kind to my landlord,…

Tons of people live in the Lower East Side with affordable rent. Think Chinatown, etc.

Of course that is not where people usually associate with Manhanttan..