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React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

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Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#31

Post by dastbe »

Lazare wrote: post #27
SiVal wrote: post #14

TL;DR: As far as I can tell, the news here is that Facebook is doing for React Native (& Yoga) what they recently did for React itself. In other words, in the past choosing React for crucial infrastructure put you in position where even if Facebook infringed on your IP, you could not sue them without losing the legal right to use React, potentially crippling your company. So, either use React and create an IP vulnera…

> In other words, in the past choosing React for crucial infrastructure put you in position where even if Facebook infringed on your IP, you could not sue them without losing the legal right to use React It hardly matters now, but as gets pointed out every time this gets brought up, this is quite false . You would lose the legal right to use any patents which Facebook might (or might not!) have on React. You did not…

So obviously IANAL, but aren't you eliding the fact that the explicit patent grant was revoked on suing facebook for patent infringement? Whereas the implicit patent grant in MIT lacks that caveat?

Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#33

Post by btgeekboy »

ftoo wrote: post #19
SiVal wrote: post #14

TL;DR: As far as I can tell, the news here is that Facebook is doing for React Native (& Yoga) what they recently did for React itself. In other words, in the past choosing React for crucial infrastructure put you in position where even if Facebook infringed on your IP, you could not sue them without losing the legal right to use React, potentially crippling your company. So, either use React and create an IP vulnera…

That last paragraph is the very definition of Stockholm Syndrome. Facebook is an $0.5T company built on open source. Without open source, Facebook would not have been possible.

You’re not wrong, but it seems more appropriate to applaud desired behavior (positive reinforcement) than to continue to be bitter about past undesirable behavior.

Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#34

Post by cma »

Lazare wrote: post #27
SiVal wrote: post #14

TL;DR: As far as I can tell, the news here is that Facebook is doing for React Native (& Yoga) what they recently did for React itself. In other words, in the past choosing React for crucial infrastructure put you in position where even if Facebook infringed on your IP, you could not sue them without losing the legal right to use React, potentially crippling your company. So, either use React and create an IP vulnera…

> In other words, in the past choosing React for crucial infrastructure put you in position where even if Facebook infringed on your IP, you could not sue them without losing the legal right to use React It hardly matters now, but as gets pointed out every time this gets brought up, this is quite false . You would lose the legal right to use any patents which Facebook might (or might not!) have on React. You did not…

> You would lose the legal right to use any patents which Facebook might (or might not!) have on React.

So a poker bluff that would be Russian roulette without an expensive comprehensive patent search (and researching their patents itself increases your liability; reading about all the ones that you later determine didn't cover React subjects you to triple damages if they covered any of your other tech).

Facebook could also have acquired existing patents at a later date from other companies and individuals and use them go after you if you triggered the revoke terms, so you had to search all patents ever, not just ones that Facebook filed or owned during your initial decision to use the library. You could argue you have to do that anyway, but keeping with the poker bluff analogy, Facebook could know of the patent already, have undisclosed terms that prevented React licensees from being sued by the holder, and have a pre-negotiated option to buy the rights during a licensee revoke event.

Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#36

Post by tomelders »

Lazare wrote: post #27
SiVal wrote: post #14

TL;DR: As far as I can tell, the news here is that Facebook is doing for React Native (& Yoga) what they recently did for React itself. In other words, in the past choosing React for crucial infrastructure put you in position where even if Facebook infringed on your IP, you could not sue them without losing the legal right to use React, potentially crippling your company. So, either use React and create an IP vulnera…

> In other words, in the past choosing React for crucial infrastructure put you in position where even if Facebook infringed on your IP, you could not sue them without losing the legal right to use React It hardly matters now, but as gets pointed out every time this gets brought up, this is quite false . You would lose the legal right to use any patents which Facebook might (or might not!) have on React. You did not…

More importantly, you have more protection with the BSD+Patent Grant than with BSD alone.

With BSD alone, if you infringe on a Facebook patent then you are vulnerable to legal action from Facebook if they deem that you’ve infringed your patent. And regardless of wether you’d infringed or not, such action would still cost a lot of money to fight in court and would cripple most businesses.

People who claim it risks giving up their IP are ignoring the brutal truth that software patents are shit, and if you’re in the software business you’re pretty much guaranteed to be infringing someone elses bullshit patent.

The BSD+Patent Grant was designed to combat the patent trolls, but people lost their minds and now it’s gone.

The BSD licence is objectively worse than the BSD+Patent Grant. If you opposed it, then the only people you’ve helped are the patent trolls.

Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#37

Post by tomelders »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #7
givehimagun wrote: post #2

Prediction - there will be a Harvard Business Review about Facebook's adventure with licensing. My unproven hypothesis is that they hurt their software's adoption rate because of their licensing. Personally, I believe MIT is correct. I had moved my company away from React when they had the licensing problems. To me, it feels like they are coming back to the community now.

Of course it hurt their software adoption rate. You have very public spats by wordpress and apache over this. Think of people who couldn't convince their boss to use react / react-native because the legal department saw that PATENTS file and said NO WAY. I think they are making these moves because they see that they are going to be in a weaker position in the future and need to open their grip on these projects to ma…

The irony being that the Apache license has an identical clause.

Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#38

Post by sghiassy »

zebraflask wrote: post #35

I'm not surprised, React Native doesn't work nearly as well as you'd think. This is basically a piece of software you'd have to give away (IMHO).

I had the experience of taking React Native to production in an Enterprise-level environment once.

My team first experimenting with RN on 0.8.0. What I found impressive was that some of the experimental code we wrote in RN proved stable enough, that it was still the same on production level builds using RN version 15.x eighteen-months later.

I'm not saying RN is THE solution, but I for one would stand to vouch for it for both top-quality UI output but also for ease of development.

That being said, there's so much cross-platform work going on, who knows where the industry will be years 2 years from now.

Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#39

Post by sghiassy »

anonytrary wrote: post #32

It's ironic how one can hold utmost respect for Facebook's libraries, but be vehemently against the actual Facebook web application and their business practices.

agreed - that sentiment carries to all of us software-engineers working in the Silicon Valley Peninsula.

Re: React Native and Yoga Both Given MIT Licence by Facebook

#40

Post by schrep »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #7
givehimagun wrote: post #2

Prediction - there will be a Harvard Business Review about Facebook's adventure with licensing. My unproven hypothesis is that they hurt their software's adoption rate because of their licensing. Personally, I believe MIT is correct. I had moved my company away from React when they had the licensing problems. To me, it feels like they are coming back to the community now.

Of course it hurt their software adoption rate. You have very public spats by wordpress and apache over this. Think of people who couldn't convince their boss to use react / react-native because the legal department saw that PATENTS file and said NO WAY. I think they are making these moves because they see that they are going to be in a weaker position in the future and need to open their grip on these projects to ma…

Actually we just thought it was a shame that people wouldn’t use it because of the license. Not much more complicated than that.
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