Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent • Hacker News Board

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#31

Post by lotsofpulp » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 12:34 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #30

crdoconnor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird that more companies don't offer more vacation as a perk. Offering 40 days instead of 25 means 15 days of foregone work for the company - 6% fewer days worked a year. But, it looks a lot better than a 6% increase in pay on paper. Moreover, you probably lose much less than that because you'll have better rested, less stressed, probably more productive employees and it will help cut down on employees making t…

From me experience at least in the US there is a moral component to more vacation. The managers I have dealt with acted a little as if wanting more vacation is a moral failing of the person.

That's just because the manager is then responsible for the work when people take vacation, so dissuading it as much as possible saves them time and stress personally.

Vacation is a big problem of you're running with just enough people to operate the business, which most are people are one of the most expensive parts of the business. Unless you're not doing anything time sensitive, mission critical, or customer facing, then being on vacation means someone is stretched to cover you.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#32

Post by auggierose » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 12:41 PM UTC

neebz wrote: post #26

I loved remote work and did a lot of effort to ensure that we adopt a remote-friendly culture. However I will never get over the fact that we found some of our engineers ended up doing freelancing work, over-estimating work and basically just slacking around in the freedom of their homes. I would love to hear if anyone had similar experiences or how they prevent such in remote environments.

That is an interesting point. Personally, I think remote work should be freelance work.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#33

Post by pleasecalllater » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

weeksie wrote: post #27

I really wish we'd start using a term like journeyman to talk about what people insist on calling "senior developers". A person with 3-6 years of experience isn't senior. That's preposterous on its face. Nor is a 3-6 year developer a junior, but we are woefully inept at using meaningful terms for developers.

This always makes me sad. 3-6 years of experience, and you are senior. 20 years of experience, and you are too old for the "young and dynamic team". I'm slowly hitting 20 years soon... and even now I have troubles with getting a job. I didn't have the problem when I had 3-6 years of experience.

A surgeon with 3-6 years of experience is usually too inexperienced to operate on her own. 20 years of experience, and you can lead a team of surgeons.

In IT we have some strange cult of inexperience. And this makes me sad.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#34

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 12:43 PM UTC

freyfogle wrote: post #28

crdoconnor wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that's bullshit. I think it's purely about trying to keep everybody in the dark about each other's compensation packages. It's easier to keep employees in the dark about money because of the taboo talking about it. If Tom spent the last month sunning himself in the Maldives, on the other hand, he's probably not going to shut up about it. Compensation secrecy is a fairly straightforward way of dragging down pa…

In my experience as founder of a 20 plus employee start-up, I assumed all employees would find out each other's salary. There is no way to enforce secrecy, people talk. For exactly this reason it is better to have a clear policy. Having 20 different special deals - like "I want to work one month less, but get paid less" etc - means you spend all of your time managing HR. Everyone thinks the other person's deal is bet…

In my experience employers will often profess transparency but will refrain from sharing salary information (citing 'personal secrecy') and rely upon the taboo around discussing compensation do its work, which it usually does.

You sadly professed transparency and then immediately gave the game away when you said this:

"Everyone thinks the other person's deal is better."

That happens when compensation packages are kept secret or are revealed suddenly, not when they are open as a matter of policy.

It's not being 'transparent' when you share details of everybody's holiday entitlement, because it's easy to spot when people aren't in the office and there is zero taboo surrounding sharing how many days of holiday you take or whether you took friday afternoon off. It's simply a tacit acceptance of reality.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#35

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 12:46 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #30

crdoconnor wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's weird that more companies don't offer more vacation as a perk. Offering 40 days instead of 25 means 15 days of foregone work for the company - 6% fewer days worked a year. But, it looks a lot better than a 6% increase in pay on paper. Moreover, you probably lose much less than that because you'll have better rested, less stressed, probably more productive employees and it will help cut down on employees making t…

From me experience at least in the US there is a moral component to more vacation. The managers I have dealt with acted a little as if wanting more vacation is a moral failing of the person.

It's not real. I've gotten that when asking for more money too. Running a guilt trip on employees or potential employees is a pretty standard tool of psychological manipulation and intimidation.

A manager whose bonus is on the line and who knows that they have no chance of getting an increase in holiday allowance approved is quite likely to do that.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#36

Post by pmorici » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 12:53 PM UTC

drinchev wrote: post #9

What is missing in the article is the word "freelance". Most of the time within a startup you can see developers stay in the company for ~1 year. Usually they are more willing to find another job than negotiating a salary bump ( which happens to be also mentally easier, since the first action is passive - just reply to a recruiter ). When I completely switched to freelance gigs, I discovered that I stay in a company…

“Freelance” has very negative connotations I my book. It brings to mind sites like odesk or whatever it is called now where low quality companies look to find 99 cent an hour talent.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#37

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 12:59 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #24

TamDenholm wrote: post #18

Senior developer salaries in my local area (Edinburgh, Scotland, UK) are £30k-£40k which is about $42k - $56k USD. On a £40k salary you pay roughly £9,500 in tax. Ive no idea what the tax rate is in America but the difference in salaries between the UK and the US is astounding.

The UK mostly pays developers a derisory salary. Australia seems to pay roughly on a par with the US, or did when I lived there. But most of the UK is dreadful - software folks are paid poorly and treated like drones. Unfortunately there are enough people that will take the bad salary, have mediocre performance and deliver mediocre software slowly, that a lot of British companies now expect to pay peanuts and get mon…

The contractor premium will get dragged down in a year or two as well - the Tories are planning on kicking up taxes for them in order to bring in an extra £200 mil.

That will probably lead to an exodus of the experienced developers from the UK. This will not only have a negative effect on UK software houses it will also exacerbate the existing problems with UK government IT projects, which have already have a multibillion-pound problem with failure to deliver and cost overruns as it is.

Meanwhile, Russian oligarchs are still paying peanuts for their empty central London mansions and big companies are barely paying any corporation taxes.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#38

Post by aianus » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 1:01 PM UTC

ldarcyftw wrote: post #25

TamDenholm wrote: post #18

Senior developer salaries in my local area (Edinburgh, Scotland, UK) are £30k-£40k which is about $42k - $56k USD. On a £40k salary you pay roughly £9,500 in tax. Ive no idea what the tax rate is in America but the difference in salaries between the UK and the US is astounding.

What's the point in getting all those $$$K if a single major medical event (like cancer) will bankrupt you? Ah, and I just checked my retirement calculator. It claims that once I retire at 67 I'll have to pay $8K/month for my medical insurance.

If you're getting $$$k in salary, you're also almost certainly getting top notch medical insurance.

Also, you don't need private insurance when you're 67, that's what Medicare is for.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#39

Post by muse900 » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 1:03 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #24

TamDenholm wrote: post #18

Senior developer salaries in my local area (Edinburgh, Scotland, UK) are £30k-£40k which is about $42k - $56k USD. On a £40k salary you pay roughly £9,500 in tax. Ive no idea what the tax rate is in America but the difference in salaries between the UK and the US is astounding.

The UK mostly pays developers a derisory salary. Australia seems to pay roughly on a par with the US, or did when I lived there. But most of the UK is dreadful - software folks are paid poorly and treated like drones. Unfortunately there are enough people that will take the bad salary, have mediocre performance and deliver mediocre software slowly, that a lot of British companies now expect to pay peanuts and get mon…

Completely agree with you. In the London area it’s white expensive to live due to how expensive housing is.

Contracting might be a good thing for a tech guy with a specific skill but a lot of people like me like to have something standard and be more secure in a way that they won’t need to search for another gig in 3 months. I guess the more contracting you do the more reliable you become and you constantly close down gigs knowing your intake for a year before signing any contracts, but I’d say it’s still a bit hard.

From what I’ve seen if you are a developer going to Manchester or Birmingham or something like that and getting a gig might be the best thing you can do, since the cost of living goes heavily down and the salary drop is not that massive unless you were working on finance tech which tends to pay higher.

Re: Turning a Job Opening into a Dream Job for Top Talent

#40

Post by sethammons » Sat, Feb 03, 2018, 1:11 PM UTC

aianus wrote: post #38

ldarcyftw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point in getting all those $$$K if a single major medical event (like cancer) will bankrupt you? Ah, and I just checked my retirement calculator. It claims that once I retire at 67 I'll have to pay $8K/month for my medical insurance.

If you're getting $$$k in salary, you're also almost certainly getting top notch medical insurance. Also, you don't need private insurance when you're 67, that's what Medicare is for.

And you pay for Medicare after you are eligible for it. My dad just hit Medicare age and was surprised to find out he gets to pay for it.