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Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

nytimes.com

31–40 of 181 posts

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#31
Study: Anaesthetics stop diverse plant organ movements, affect endocytic vesicle recycling and ROS homeostasis, and block action potentials in Venus flytraps

Citation: K Yokawa, T Kagenishi, A Pavlovič, S Gall, M Weiland, S Mancuso, F Baluška; Annals of Botany, mcx155.

Link: https://doi.org/10.1093/aob/mcx155

DOI: 10.1093/aob/mcx155

Abstract:

Background and Aims

Anaesthesia for medical purposes was introduced in the 19th century. However, the physiological mode of anaesthetic drug actions on the nervous system remains unclear. One of the remaining questions is how these different compounds, with no structural similarities and even chemically inert elements such as the noble gas xenon, act as anaesthetic agents inducing loss of consciousness. The main goal here was to determine if anaesthetics affect the same or similar processes in plants as in animals and humans.

Methods

A single-lens reflex camera was used to follow organ movements in plants before, during and after recovery from exposure to diverse anaesthetics. Confocal microscopy was used to analyse endocytic vesicle trafficking. Electrical signals were recorded using a surface AgCl electrode.

Key Results

Mimosa leaves, pea tendrils, Venus flytraps and sundew traps all lost both their autonomous and touch-induced movements after exposure to anaesthetics. In Venus flytrap, this was shown to be due to the loss of action potentials under diethyl ether anaesthesia. The same concentration of diethyl ether immobilized pea tendrils. Anaesthetics also impeded seed germination and chlorophyll accumulation in cress seedlings. Endocytic vesicle recycling and reactive oxygen species (ROS) balance, as observed in intact Arabidopsis root apex cells, were also affected by all anaesthetics tested.

Conclusions

Plants are sensitive to several anaesthetics that have no structural similarities. As in animals and humans, anaesthetics used at appropriate concentrations block action potentials and immobilize organs via effects on action potentials, endocytic vesicle recycling and ROS homeostasis. Plants emerge as ideal model objects to study general questions related to anaesthesia, as well as to serve as a suitable test system for human anaesthesia.

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#32
post #4

Great, they’ve ruined vegetarianism.

We have known for years that plants give off a pulse ("scream") when assaulted, communicate chemically etc. I have said for years that the idea that eating plants is morally superior because they aren't sentient is basically speciesist, for lack of a better word.

What about the argument that we should minimize suffering created by our food choices, and plants appear to be less capable of suffering than almost all animals? Which animals do you think we would be ethically justified in eating instead of eating plants?

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite only half joking comment on vegitarianism is "So you're saying that you are racist against plants?" [0] 0. The pedant in me says kingdomist.

When someone says they're a "vegetarian" but eat fish" I always think, "ah, it's the IQ school of vegetarianism: you'll eat anything you think is as smart as asparagus."

Fish aren't necessarily any less smart than chickens or cattle.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24942105

If you count cephalopods as "fish", some species are as smart as primates.

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#34
post #20

> “Plants are not just robotic, stimulus-response devices,” said Frantisek Baluska I don't see how this follows from the finding that sedatives can prevent plants from responding to stimuli. It just means that there's a shared mechanism behind plants' responses and animals' responses, which wouldn't be overly surprising. Of course, that doesn't mean that plants don't have a lot more going on than we usually realise,…

The correct statement is "Plants are less [more like robotic, stimulus-response devices than people are] than previously assumed."

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#35
post #29

K sooo to (kinda) answer the question: depends. What's your definition of consciousness? Now as for the implication that anesthetics sedating plants has ANYTHING to do with this/whether or not they are conscious: no. No sorry, not buying it. Need more science. This just suggests we may have similar inhibitory biochemical responses to certain organic compounds. That's not surprising since were all made out of hydrocar…

> What's your definition of consciousness?

How about - ability to adapt to environment and select good actions depending on situation, learning from reward/loss signals.

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I would argue that eating animals is morally superior to cannibalism :) So why can't eating plants be morally superior to eat animals.

I would argue that there are lots of valid reasons to eat lower on the food chain, many of which can be framed as having a moral impetus. But the idea that it is morally superior based on plants being stupid is repugnant to me. It opens the door on questions like "So, is it okay to eat mentally retarded people?" Some moral arguments I can agree with: A mostly plant based diet is less resource intensive. Since most wa…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Bentham

"The question is not, Can they reason? nor, Can they talk? but, Can they suffer?"

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#37
post #20

> “Plants are not just robotic, stimulus-response devices,” said Frantisek Baluska I don't see how this follows from the finding that sedatives can prevent plants from responding to stimuli. It just means that there's a shared mechanism behind plants' responses and animals' responses, which wouldn't be overly surprising. Of course, that doesn't mean that plants don't have a lot more going on than we usually realise,…

For all I care humans are "just robotic, stimulus-response devices".

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#38
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I would argue that eating animals is morally superior to cannibalism :) So why can't eating plants be morally superior to eat animals.

I would argue that there are lots of valid reasons to eat lower on the food chain, many of which can be framed as having a moral impetus. But the idea that it is morally superior based on plants being stupid is repugnant to me. It opens the door on questions like "So, is it okay to eat mentally retarded people?" Some moral arguments I can agree with: A mostly plant based diet is less resource intensive. Since most wa…

Is war really about scarcity of resources or about conflict over resources, regardless of scarcity?

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#39
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I would argue that eating animals is morally superior to cannibalism :) So why can't eating plants be morally superior to eat animals.

I would argue that there are lots of valid reasons to eat lower on the food chain, many of which can be framed as having a moral impetus. But the idea that it is morally superior based on plants being stupid is repugnant to me. It opens the door on questions like "So, is it okay to eat mentally retarded people?" Some moral arguments I can agree with: A mostly plant based diet is less resource intensive. Since most wa…

[deleted]

Re: Sedate a Plant, and It Seems to Lose Consciousness. Is It Conscious?

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite only half joking comment on vegitarianism is "So you're saying that you are racist against plants?" [0] 0. The pedant in me says kingdomist.

I have long joked that vegetarianism is about hating plants, not loving animals.

Animals that peope eat eat far more plants than people who eat plants eat, so the joke is more "funny" than meaningful.
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