Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#31

Post by viraptor » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:19 PM UTC

brlewis wrote: post #7

This article lumps a lot of techniques together that are fundamentally different. The ones that are actual deception are not benevolent, and the ones that are benevolent are not actually deception. Deception is leading someone to believe something that isn't true. If a deliberate delay is added to a UI to make it clear to the user that actual work is being done, this is not deception. You are leading the user to beli…

> If a deliberate delay is added to a UI to make it clear to the user that actual work is being done, this is not deception.

It is deception. It's less obvious in case of a program, but imagine it when you're using some service in real life. You bring in a car for repairs, the mechanic says "right, I'm doing it now", goes to the other room and starts reading a newspaper. After some deliberate delay, fixes an obvious issue in a minute and comes back to you saying the job is done.

Still think that's not deceptive?

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#32

Post by TheCoreh » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:19 PM UTC

markcerqueira wrote: post #29

hutzlibu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you have give also vague, but accurate information as well? User's like to know what's going on, even if they maybe don't understand all the details, but at least they see things are happening and not just a (fake) progress bar. So they can connect more to what is happening and therefore be more understanding and patient instead of just being told to wait, with no further information, which nobody likes.

> Couldn't you have give also vague, but accurate information as well? Could you give me an example of what you consider "vague, but accurate information?"

Connecting

Fetching data

Processing query

Preparing for display

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#33

Post by mrisoli » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:24 PM UTC

diplomatpuppy wrote: post #11

I had a report in Microsoft Access that took about five minutes to run - and the users hated it. I had the application throw up a fake dialog with fake messages about "Collating data, Cross checking, Sorting" and other such nonsense. The report now took eight minutes to run because I had to abuse the "On Timer" event for it to work. The users were delighted with the improvement.

I remember reading long ago about how they did something similar at an airport(Dallas IIRC).

Basically, people complained about baggage claim taking too long, so they just moved the baggage claim area to the other side of the airport, so it took longer for passengers to reach it, by the time they did, their bags would already be there, so the complaints stopped.

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#34

Post by Spivak » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:26 PM UTC

mrisoli wrote: post #33

diplomatpuppy wrote: post #11

I had a report in Microsoft Access that took about five minutes to run - and the users hated it. I had the application throw up a fake dialog with fake messages about "Collating data, Cross checking, Sorting" and other such nonsense. The report now took eight minutes to run because I had to abuse the "On Timer" event for it to work. The users were delighted with the improvement.

I remember reading long ago about how they did something similar at an airport(Dallas IIRC). Basically, people complained about baggage claim taking too long, so they just moved the baggage claim area to the other side of the airport, so it took longer for passengers to reach it, by the time they did, their bags would already be there, so the complaints stopped.

I feel like this really isn't deception but actually solving the problem which is that passengers didn't want to stand around.

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#35

Post by girvo » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:27 PM UTC

TheCoreh wrote: post #32

markcerqueira wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Couldn't you have give also vague, but accurate information as well? Could you give me an example of what you consider "vague, but accurate information?"

Connecting Fetching data Processing query Preparing for display

Most of those steps will go immediately, and one of them has the same problem the original issue had: it’ll sit on it for ages...

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#36

Post by Spivak » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:30 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #31

brlewis wrote: post #7

This article lumps a lot of techniques together that are fundamentally different. The ones that are actual deception are not benevolent, and the ones that are benevolent are not actually deception. Deception is leading someone to believe something that isn't true. If a deliberate delay is added to a UI to make it clear to the user that actual work is being done, this is not deception. You are leading the user to beli…

> If a deliberate delay is added to a UI to make it clear to the user that actual work is being done, this is not deception. It is deception. It's less obvious in case of a program, but imagine it when you're using some service in real life. You bring in a car for repairs, the mechanic says "right, I'm doing it now", goes to the other room and starts reading a newspaper. After some deliberate delay, fixes an obvious…

I think it depends. If the mechanic is attempting to mislead the customer by insinuating longer or more difficult work then it's deceptive. But if it's because customers refuse to believe that their car could be fixed so quickly and assume that no work had been done then I don't think so.

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#37

Post by chocolatebunny » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

markcerqueira wrote: post #29

hutzlibu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't you have give also vague, but accurate information as well? User's like to know what's going on, even if they maybe don't understand all the details, but at least they see things are happening and not just a (fake) progress bar. So they can connect more to what is happening and therefore be more understanding and patient instead of just being told to wait, with no further information, which nobody likes.

> Couldn't you have give also vague, but accurate information as well? Could you give me an example of what you consider "vague, but accurate information?"

"reticulating splines"

I guess the lesson to be learnt here is that people are more understanding if you appear to be transparent but you don't have to ACTUALLY be transparent to get the affect.

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#38

Post by BlahBoy3 » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

mrisoli wrote: post #33

diplomatpuppy wrote: post #11

I had a report in Microsoft Access that took about five minutes to run - and the users hated it. I had the application throw up a fake dialog with fake messages about "Collating data, Cross checking, Sorting" and other such nonsense. The report now took eight minutes to run because I had to abuse the "On Timer" event for it to work. The users were delighted with the improvement.

I remember reading long ago about how they did something similar at an airport(Dallas IIRC). Basically, people complained about baggage claim taking too long, so they just moved the baggage claim area to the other side of the airport, so it took longer for passengers to reach it, by the time they did, their bags would already be there, so the complaints stopped.

It was actually a Houston airport; here's an article that talks more about it: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/19/opinion/sunday/why-waiting...

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#39

Post by Spivak » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

kirse wrote: post #26

wanderingstan wrote: post #6

A physical analog of this would be when an Houston airport reduced complaints by moving it's baggage claim to be farther away from gates. Would you call this deception? Also: A friend runs a service that analyzes web page design based on tens of thousands of hours of human eye tracking studies. An analysis only takes a matter of milliseconds, but they found that their conversion rate went up if they artificially put…

artificially put in a delay Makes me wonder if online retailers for luxury/fashion items could increase sales by doing something similar. Announce the latest fashion item via social media, but make the page take forever to load... maybe throw in a few fake 404s to a percentage of users saying the store's website is overloaded and encourage the user to refresh. Then when the page finally loads there's a limited supply…

This really has nothing to do with luxury goods. This behavior occurs on a lot of e-commerce sites regardless of what they sell. Outside of established players these tactics are fairly common. At least TicketMaster has an excuse for the timer.

Re: Why some apps use fake progress bars (2017)

#40

Post by whowouldathunk » Fri, Feb 02, 2018, 11:32 PM UTC

diplomatpuppy wrote: post #11

I had a report in Microsoft Access that took about five minutes to run - and the users hated it. I had the application throw up a fake dialog with fake messages about "Collating data, Cross checking, Sorting" and other such nonsense. The report now took eight minutes to run because I had to abuse the "On Timer" event for it to work. The users were delighted with the improvement.

Missed opportunity for "reticulating splines"