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A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

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Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#31

Alternate link for people who can't be bothered defeating WAPO paywalls: https://kotaku.com/infamous-atari-player-gets-world-record-r...

I find that if you right-click on the link, then open it in a private tab or incognito. It will allow you you to read the article.

I find that viewing the article with JavaScript turned off works too.

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#32
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who can't watch. Some games were scored in increments of 5 and he somehow got a score finishing with an 8. Many scores were ridiculous like 650000 for a game that goes in increments of 100 and the second highest video verified score was in the 90k range. Then the fact that all his records were referee verified instead of video verified. The referee is serving a sentence for child rape. Then there is the lie…

> Then the fact that all his records were referee verified instead of video verified. The referee is serving a sentence for child rape. While that's deplorable, it does not logically follow that a child molester is necessarily an unreliable referee.

Only the simplest deductions logically follow. Everything else is inference.

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the fact that all his records were referee verified instead of video verified. The referee is serving a sentence for child rape. While that's deplorable, it does not logically follow that a child molester is necessarily an unreliable referee.

It's a pretty safe bet, though.

I wouldn't want to listen to anything a child molester has to say, but that doesn't mean their knowledge of something completely unrelated is suspect at all. Just that I really don't care to know what a child molester has to say, on any topic. Although, I agree with the video in that I would question his honesty and character... So maybe you're right.

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#34
post #24

Here's a good video summary about Todd Rogers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e-H4sEHB54

For those who can't watch. Some games were scored in increments of 5 and he somehow got a score finishing with an 8. Many scores were ridiculous like 650000 for a game that goes in increments of 100 and the second highest video verified score was in the 90k range. Then the fact that all his records were referee verified instead of video verified. The referee is serving a sentence for child rape. Then there is the lie…

Ironically, in the case of the Dragster record, his exact time does match the nature of Dragster's clock being only precise to 3/100ths of a second:

> Despite Omnigamer’s claim, as previously mentioned, Activision supposedly had created a machine-assisted run that determined 5.54 a perfect score, which is .03 better than Koziel’s model, thus making it impossible in his determinations. Crane explained to me that the “Dragster timer is .03 seconds per tick, so the difference that is being discussed is one tick of the game clock in a record set 35 years ago.”

http://www.twingalaxies.com/feed_details.php/87/dragster-des...

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#35

This reminds me of the slimy feel I get about Billy Mitchell every time I see a video of him.

Reportedly, that's just a persona and he amped it up for the King of Kong film. But I definitely get where you're coming from.

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#36
post #16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's some background from a TG insider: "I seem to recall Walter Day had sold the rights to TG a couple years back. I used to work for TG some years ago, but hated it. My brother I and were constantly having to fight with what I call "the old guard" comprised of record holders from the early 80's. First, they resisted every one of our innovative new ideas like speed-gaming records for consoles, and then later we di…

Having watched The King of Kong, this doesn't surprise me that much.

That is one hilarious and fascinating documentary. Considering when it was made, I found it incredible how there was a niche of society that had managed to come so close in capturing time in a bottle.

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then the fact that all his records were referee verified instead of video verified. The referee is serving a sentence for child rape. While that's deplorable, it does not logically follow that a child molester is necessarily an unreliable referee.

It's a pretty safe bet, though.

People commit horrible crimes. That's one of those things that happen. It doesn't actually mean that everything they did was a lie or a crime, even if they are a horrible, detestable human in many senses of the word.

I'd nearly argue that it would be in his worst interest to participate in defrauding something since it might have revealed his horrible offenses.

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#38
TwinGalaxies had quite the extensive writeup on Todd's various cheating [1].

There was a staggering amount of evidence, including TAS (Tool Assisted Speedruns) proving that Todd's time is physically impossible. That blew up in a 274-page thread, but ultimately I believe it took Robert T Mruczek's writeup to finally ban Todd.[1] Not surprising as Mcruzek is part of the "old guard".

I think this reflected very poorly on TG and I have no intention of using them in the future.

[1]: http://www.twingalaxies.com/showthread.php/175364-Dispute-Di...

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#39

> Beyond the software analysis evidence, which speaks directly to Todd Rogers’s Dragster 5.51 score time I didn't understand this sentence: it means that, looking at the code and calculating all possibilities of gear changing moments, it would be impossible to achieve 5.51 ? If so, why would any other evidence be necessary ? Or, if it wasn't such analysis (and I think that this one would be definitive), why wasn't th…

You're exactly correct about the kind of analysis that was done. The code was analyzed, and the game was played frame-by-frame in an emulator to demonstrate perfect play. I believe some members of the speedrunning community also ran brute-force searches of the input space to make sure there wasn't some kind of obscure glitch that could trigger that wasn't obvious from the code.

The reason that Twin Galaxies didn't accept that analysis is because they're run by members of a clique of old-school gamers who stayed behind when the speedrunning community abandoned TG, and Todd Rogers is part of that clique. The analysis was largely done by Omnigamer, who is a well-respected speedrunner outside of TG but isn't part of the clique. TG's staff chose to believe their own in-group rather than a evidence-based challenge from an outsider until their hand was forced by a viral Youtube video[1] calling them out.

This kind of behavior isn't new for Twin Galaxies. They have a long history of mismanagement and corruption. Most of the times/scores posted on their site lack any publicly-viewable proof because until very recently, proof only had to be shown to TG staff "referees" so that people could keep their special techniques secret from the competition. Modern speedrunning eschews secrecy and requires publicly-viewable video proof for all runs.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e-H4sEHB54

Re: A man accused of cheating at video games may lose his Guinness World Record

#40
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those who can't watch. Some games were scored in increments of 5 and he somehow got a score finishing with an 8. Many scores were ridiculous like 650000 for a game that goes in increments of 100 and the second highest video verified score was in the 90k range. Then the fact that all his records were referee verified instead of video verified. The referee is serving a sentence for child rape. Then there is the lie…

> Then the fact that all his records were referee verified instead of video verified. The referee is serving a sentence for child rape. While that's deplorable, it does not logically follow that a child molester is necessarily an unreliable referee.

It demonstrates poor exercise of judgment, which would render them partially unreliable. Then there's the question of whether they're your "peers".
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