There's a lot of talk about full stack developers lately, I'm still waiting to find the first full stack manager. Someone who's visionary, yet realistic; confident, yet empathic; powerful, yet humble. I feel like there's some truth to the saying that the best leaders are those who don't consider themselves fit to lead.
People leave managers, not companies
31–40 of 186 posts
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#32people drop out of shitty things that undervalue them, which is much of the modern world. welcome to the world, 2.0.
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#33The manager is your interface to management. It's their job to tell you what you need to know and what to do. To an employee, they're the face of the business.
But at the end of the day, if it's the people that make up a business, then I'd question if they are not the same thing.
I asked a new acquaintance of mine about something bothering me.
I asked him, "so, how often do you fire people? How do find the right people for your businesses?"
"I hardly ever have to fire anyone," he said. "I ask them questions, and they leave."
Damn.
And the thing is, this pressure isn't faked or manufactured. This isn't anyone trying to fire someone. This is just someone needing work done, and answers.
No business wants anyone incompetent, yet, it happens, because of interviewees lying through their teeth and not knowing any better.
So they walk in and fail to do the exact job they won for themselves, then come the questions.
Now they lose their place and have to leave, knowing they got the job by accident.
There is plenty of real pressure to go around in a real business, and we avoid managerial roles because we know the stakes are higher. We know that having a manager is "safer" than being one, because having a manager is having someone responsible for you, and for your well being. It's how America figured out how to hire from the abundant talent pool of those who can't handle tough responsibilities and stay happy on their own, and those who'd rather have it easier. It's the luxury of being managed.
But above that, it gets even worse. Fewer luxuries, just higher pay. Just think of all the bullets the CEO has to catch with their teeth every day. And wen they fail, it's news.
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#34Likewise, there probably isn't such a thing as a 10X developer, but I totally believe 10X managers exist (they provide cover, they have empathy, they are able to lead people who otherwise aren't very manageable). I've only met very few of them in my career, most managers are 1X or even negative.
I agree with you that 10X managers exist, but it's utter nonsense to claim that 10X developers don't exist. I've met people who are possibly at the 100X level; it's worth remembering that some tasks cannot be done by an average developer with any amount of time.
I imagine that there are probably tasks that don't allow the 10X or 100X to show through; anything basic and repetitive enough (or so heavily specified that the developer's job is essentially "typing").
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#35Tellingly, when I interviewed with Intercom their "culture fit" manager was extremely rude and condescending, and constantly interrupted. Everyone else was polite, but if this is the person who gets to decide "yeah, they'd fit in here" that's a pretty huge problem.
People turn you down because of managers, not companies, too.
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#36People leave the environment, not just the manager, though the manager is a big piece of the puzzle.
I quit my last employer because the manager was an abusive bully with severe trust issues who would constantly threaten, abuse and demoralize people, but HR was also to blame since they did not lift a finger to address the issue even though this manager's behavior was widely known throughout the company for decades.
I've also left a great manager in the past since the business was going nowhere. I've left a good manager and good team because I was very underpaid in another company.
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#37I have been managing large teams (Anywhere from 100 to 300 people) and in my experience I would phrase it differently. 1. In a going concern, which has found traction, a manager is often the _reason_ for people to leave the company. 2. In a company that is not finding traction, or the larger view of its direction is obfuscated, managers are the reason people _stay_ back to work. This manager being the end-all of asso…
You have been directly managing over a hundred people? That just sounds like textbook bad heirarchy
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#38The manager is your interface to management. It's their job to tell you what you need to know and what to do. To an employee, they're the face of the business. But at the end of the day, if it's the people that make up a business, then I'd question if they are not the same thing. I asked a new acquaintance of mine about something bothering me. I asked him, "so, how often do you fire people? How do find the right peop…
Being a manager is about being loyal to the company and not individuals. It pays more precisely because it causes pain to peoples' consciences to put an abstraction above fellow employees.
Talking about a CEO catching bullets in their teeth is ridiculously inflated language. Why use such imagery? Because the mission of a typical company does not sufficiently compensate for the guilt produced by putting the organization ahead of individuals.
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#39#1. People get hired for what they are good, their skills and then get promoted (to management) for same technical/IC skills not for the MGMT skills. No MGMT ramp-up. No MGMT tools. No MGMT framework. You are now tasked to lead a team. it's surely will fail.
#2. Next the mindset. Typical mindset when you move from technical (or any IC) role to MGMT and the higher you go in MGMT should completely change.... unfortunately its not so easy to give up the control. MGMT is about making others successful... giving up your control to others is very frightening and often causes identity issues... moving from do it all (as an IC) to ask_and_inspire is not easy...
#3. Assuming you overcome these two... typical problem of MGMT/leadership is they try to find, "What's the matter?" where as the focus should always be on "What matters to you (an individual/ICs in team)"
Re: People leave managers, not companies
#40There's a lot of talk about full stack developers lately, I'm still waiting to find the first full stack manager. Someone who's visionary, yet realistic; confident, yet empathic; powerful, yet humble. I feel like there's some truth to the saying that the best leaders are those who don't consider themselves fit to lead.
I've seen a variety of managers doing bad jobs, and it never makes me think I could do it better. It makes me think about managerial problems, and how they are inherently difficult because of conflicts of interest.
On the other hand, I got tired of technical problems, because the real problems always seemed to be managerial where I worked.