Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Biotech booms in China

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 40 posts

Re: Biotech booms in China

#31

Post by emmelaich »

qiqing wrote: post #15
adventured wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason they're the first to work with CRISPR in humans, despite the US having a formerly vast R&D lead. It's because they're fundamentally a lot less concerned about killing people in the process. There's a reasonable debate to be had on whether the US is too concerned with the risk aspect of making progress on biotech.

> fundamentally a lot less concerned about killing people in the process That's rather flippant, and I'd like to provide a counterpoint. Some neuroscience researchers held a town hall discussion in a major US city and also in a major Chinese city (on two different occasions) about bioethics, and one of the topics discussed was whether it was morally right or wrong (in the case of IVF) to screen for IQ, assuming we ha…

I don't think that that is a counterpoint.

If anything it supports the previous comment.

Re: Biotech booms in China

#32

Post by whooshee »

Bucephalus355 wrote: post #3

This does not seem good. The world has never really reconciled the biological and chemical atrocities that went on in Asia during WWII and since, like they have in Europe. The Japanese used chemical gas attacks (munitions of unexploded gas are still found in China today) and did live vivesections on prisoners, amputating their appendages until there was nothing left. Hitler’s SS thought the atrocities so bad in China…

I can see your concern, but when was the last time you see China screwed the world up? And, to be honest, I'd never imagine China revenge and send 731 unit-like troops to Japan and do the same live-body experimentation. In history, China sent rescue team to Japan during Kantō Great Earthquake of 1923. And many parents raised children left by Japanese invaders back in 40-50s

Re: Biotech booms in China

#33

Post by whooshee »

fiblye wrote: post #30
devy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world has never really reconciled the biological and chemical atrocities that went on in Asia during WWII and since, like they have in Europe. Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals (do you know of any shrine for Hitler that German prime ministers visit?) And…

>Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals Ever consider that the reason Japan is defensive is because their opponents spread outright lies like this? Japan has apologized numerous times. Japan and Korea negotiated a deal to pay reparations in 2015, Japan paid, and it…

>Ever consider that the reason Japan is defensive is because their opponents spread outright lies like this?

Okay, are comfort women acts and massive raping committed by Japanese soldiers real?

then why "Osaka’s mayor says the city will sever ties with its sister city over the monument, which pays tribute to women who were forced to have sex with Japanese soldiers during the Second World War." [0]

And why are there still quite a few politicians denied Nanking massacre?

Germany really turned around, they even catch tourists who do Hitlergruß. I wonder will Japan do that. And Japan has reasons not to do that, because not like Germany, Japan's gov't still has quite a few war-prisoner-related families in charge, how can they stand out and deny themselves?

I know most Japanese people are anti-war, and I guess most sane Chinese/Korean people won't turn against those people. Those sentiments were ignited only targeted to their right-wing gov't's actions.

[0]https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2017/11/25/japanese-city-...

Re: Biotech booms in China

#34

Post by fiblye »

whooshee wrote: post #33
fiblye wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals Ever consider that the reason Japan is defensive is because their opponents spread outright lies like this? Japan has apologized numerous times. Japan and Korea negotiated a deal to pay reparations in 2015, Japan paid, and it…

>Ever consider that the reason Japan is defensive is because their opponents spread outright lies like this? Okay, are comfort women acts and massive raping committed by Japanese soldiers real? then why "Osaka’s mayor says the city will sever ties with its sister city over the monument, which pays tribute to women who were forced to have sex with Japanese soldiers during the Second World War." [0] And why are there s…

That's a mayor. It's incredibly easy to find small time politicians in America or any country saying horrible things on a daily basis. That doesn't reflect the status of the country as a whole. The average Japanese person does not deny the events happened.

The whole comfort women thing is mainly brought up every few years to draw attention away from local issues. Japan paid and apologized to Korea (several times), the problem went away, Korea's president was found to have been corrupt, and suddenly statues bringing up WW2 war crimes pop up all around the world to paint Japan as an enemy.

It's a pattern that pops up whenever instability happens in China and Korea all too conveniently, while stable countries that endured the same problem, like Taiwan, don't have a need to bring up a 70 year old event every 2 years.

Re: Biotech booms in China

#35

Post by ikeyany »

stevenwoo wrote: post #19
qiqing wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> fundamentally a lot less concerned about killing people in the process That's rather flippant, and I'd like to provide a counterpoint. Some neuroscience researchers held a town hall discussion in a major US city and also in a major Chinese city (on two different occasions) about bioethics, and one of the topics discussed was whether it was morally right or wrong (in the case of IVF) to screen for IQ, assuming we ha…

On the other hand, the accepted use of selective gender abortion (where the problem made the male/female ratio out of wack especially in rural areas IIRC) in China versus the controversialness of abortion being legal in the USA (re: the persistence of attempts to limit access but observing the minimal literal interpretation of Roe v. Wade) might explain a willingness to let people make choices in China over the USA.…

It sounds like you're implying China is colder and less humane.

Re: Biotech booms in China

#36

Post by Jack000 »

fiblye wrote: post #30
devy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world has never really reconciled the biological and chemical atrocities that went on in Asia during WWII and since, like they have in Europe. Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals (do you know of any shrine for Hitler that German prime ministers visit?) And…

>Correct, it hasn't reconciled because Japanese government never truly feel guilty for their war crimes and most of Japanese prime minister still goes to visit Yasukuni Shrine for war criminals Ever consider that the reason Japan is defensive is because their opponents spread outright lies like this? Japan has apologized numerous times. Japan and Korea negotiated a deal to pay reparations in 2015, Japan paid, and it…

it's not black and white. The prime minister visiting Yasukuni has political symbolism, which they're well aware of. There's also no excuse for Abe's historical revisionism.

I'm a big fan of Japanese culture in general, but their handling of this issue leaves me with a bad impression of its government. The Chinese government is even worse, with the overt anti-Japanese propaganda, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Re: Biotech booms in China

#37

Post by carlmr »

CandidlyFake wrote: post #26
joe_the_user wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, any comment like mine above has an implicit "all else being equal" in it. I didn't say that to describe some absolute formula but to contextualize my later remarks.

And my point is that you are just offering simplification that has no merit. It's a cheap ploy I expect from silly journalists, not on HN. Regulation isn't why there is a biotech boom. As I stated, it's money, people and infrastructure.

Point 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity

Point 2: There's no country with more money and infrastructure than the US. The only advantage would be more people. And I doubt China has more of the people needed in Biotech research than the US which still attracts the brightest of the world through it's academic system.

So there must be something else. And I think lack of regulation might be a good enough reason. Kind of like how Hollywood boomed after they pirated all the hardware whose patents could only be enforced on the east coast at that time.

Re: Biotech booms in China

#38

Post by stevenwoo »

ikeyany wrote: post #35
stevenwoo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, the accepted use of selective gender abortion (where the problem made the male/female ratio out of wack especially in rural areas IIRC) in China versus the controversialness of abortion being legal in the USA (re: the persistence of attempts to limit access but observing the minimal literal interpretation of Roe v. Wade) might explain a willingness to let people make choices in China over the USA.…

It sounds like you're implying China is colder and less humane.

You're reading that meaning, I'm only reciting the facts imperfectly as I may recall them. I could add a bit about how religiosity (Catholicism/evangelicalism) imposes rather arbitrary (to an outsider) limits to medical care/research (stem cell funding research partially blocked by NIH/abortion and sexual education eliminated in favor of useless abstinence guidance to USA and the rest of the world under GOP) in the USA but that seemed to add politics/religion judgement. The end result of those policies seems less humane - though some people judge policy by the policy without regard for outcome, and other people judge policy solely by outcome.

Re: Biotech booms in China

#39

Post by CandidlyFake »

carlmr wrote: post #37
CandidlyFake wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my point is that you are just offering simplification that has no merit. It's a cheap ploy I expect from silly journalists, not on HN. Regulation isn't why there is a biotech boom. As I stated, it's money, people and infrastructure.

Point 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity Point 2: There's no country with more money and infrastructure than the US. The only advantage would be more people. And I doubt China has more of the people needed in Biotech research than the US which still attracts the brightest of the world through it's academic system. So there must be something else. And I think lack of regulation might be a good enoug…

> Point 2: There's no country with more money and infrastructure than the US.

Except our money and infrastructure is going into other sectors. China has chosen to direct their resources into this sector. Simple as that.

> Kind of like how Hollywood boomed after they pirated all the hardware whose patents could only be enforced on the east coast at that time.

Hollywood boomed when money, people and infrastructure was directed to it. It was a conscious decision made by the elites. There are tons of regulation in hollywood. It's still booming. Using your logic, hollywood should be a ghost town. Ironically, your example proves you wrong.

Re: Biotech booms in China

#40

Post by carlmr »

CandidlyFake wrote: post #39
carlmr wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity Point 2: There's no country with more money and infrastructure than the US. The only advantage would be more people. And I doubt China has more of the people needed in Biotech research than the US which still attracts the brightest of the world through it's academic system. So there must be something else. And I think lack of regulation might be a good enoug…

> Point 2: There's no country with more money and infrastructure than the US. Except our money and infrastructure is going into other sectors. China has chosen to direct their resources into this sector. Simple as that. > Kind of like how Hollywood boomed after they pirated all the hardware whose patents could only be enforced on the east coast at that time. Hollywood boomed when money, people and infrastructure was…

http://www.history.com/news/the-renegade-roots-of-hollywood-...

Hollywood didn't start as elites, they started escaping them.

Post reply on HN