The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson • Hacker News Board

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#31

Post by dfraser992 » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 2:35 PM UTC

Radim wrote: post #12

josephg wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think "watch X destroy Y" is just youtube's version of clickbait. I suspect you'll find videos like that tailored to most groups on youtube. I sometimes use them as trailers for longer talks that I might enjoy - although I always feel a little guilty for encouraging this sort of thing. In this case I found their interview to be excellent viewing. She was harsh and honest with him, and hurled most of the standard cr…

"Let me get this straight… you're saying we should organize our societies along the lines of the LOBSTERS?!" Harsh, perhaps. Honest, not so much. I found most of her ripostes a dishonest caricature of Peterson's position, or downright lies. https://youtu.be/aMcjxSThD54?t=1331

He didn't explain that point so well, but I grokked what he was getting at (I think). I don't think she was smart enough to understand it, or see beyond it, so thus the gross simplification. That's my impression of her - less conscious dishonestly as opposed to just not smart enough. Then again, most people have an IQ under 120, and 120 is not that impressive either

I would have said that humans are little more than talking primates, and so our societies (West and East) are organized according to how primates organize themselves - e.g. hierarchies. We're more sophisticated than chimpanzees, but not by much. Once you understand this idea, then all the stupidity humans get up to is understandable.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#32

Post by raguuu » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 2:36 PM UTC

0x445442 wrote: post #30

I don't know how it happens but Peterson seems to always be engaged by the most logically challenged and intellectually dishonest individuals society has to offer. The recent channel 4 interview is the prime example of this. Now maybe it was all for show but the interviewer was utterly incapable of stringing even a few ideas together and at one point in the interview her mind visibly began to short circuit attempting…

It would be fun to see a debate with someone very different than him but actually someone who has arguments and date to back it up not just blind ideology.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#33

Post by raguuu » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 2:40 PM UTC

apocalypstyx wrote: post #28

Having been raised in fundamentalist Christianity, Peterson always sets off preliminary warning bells for me: The enemy is all around you. Access to secret "true" knowledge. The world is corrupt. A plan that if you follow correctly will lead to good things. An enemy that alternates between specific and generalistic states. Everything has to be framed through a set of ideological points at all times, which are reitera…

I have similar background and negative experiences, but I don't get the alarm bells but rather makes me appreciate some things I was being reached when young and also sad that the my fundamentalists parents weren't more like him. I'm am atheist as it gets but the Bible studies by him are fascinating. I remember the Bible stories very well but never thought about them in that light.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#34

Post by collyw » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 2:45 PM UTC

petercooper wrote: post #27

To me, it's a shame (and a sign of where media and culture are, right now) that the drama around pronouns and feminism are what people are jumping at with him. His teachings on the ideas of self identity, motivation, and the redefinition of religion as a system of archetypes and hierarchy are far more interesting and grounded in fact.

more fact than people making up new genders?

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#35

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 2:51 PM UTC

apocalypstyx wrote: post #28

Having been raised in fundamentalist Christianity, Peterson always sets off preliminary warning bells for me: The enemy is all around you. Access to secret "true" knowledge. The world is corrupt. A plan that if you follow correctly will lead to good things. An enemy that alternates between specific and generalistic states. Everything has to be framed through a set of ideological points at all times, which are reitera…

[deleted]

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#36

Post by alexpetralia » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 2:53 PM UTC

raguuu wrote: post #32

0x445442 wrote: post #30

I don't know how it happens but Peterson seems to always be engaged by the most logically challenged and intellectually dishonest individuals society has to offer. The recent channel 4 interview is the prime example of this. Now maybe it was all for show but the interviewer was utterly incapable of stringing even a few ideas together and at one point in the interview her mind visibly began to short circuit attempting…

It would be fun to see a debate with someone very different than him but actually someone who has arguments and date to back it up not just blind ideology.

I'd recommend Sam Harris' podcasts with Jordan in that case.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#37

Post by err4nt » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:09 PM UTC

I think a lot of why people like him is he speaks so CLEARLY, whether you agree with him or not you thoroughly understand his position, and he usually has some thought-provoking reasons for everything he says or does.

I think people are starved for somebody who can be persuasive and calm, not relying on hyperbole or name-calling to make their points, and he shows everybody a way they can do that.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#38

Post by 0x445442 » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:10 PM UTC

alexpetralia wrote: post #36

raguuu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be fun to see a debate with someone very different than him but actually someone who has arguments and date to back it up not just blind ideology.

I'd recommend Sam Harris' podcasts with Jordan in that case.

Yeah, a much higher level of discussion between two individuals exploring ideas.

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#39

Post by Synaesthesia » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:15 PM UTC

I personally love Noam Chomsky, but he’s not easy to watch speak (very motonous sounding) and his books are also mostly fact-laden. I think he’s toned down his heavy academic style a bit in his newer publications. Still his knowledge and wisdom are second to none IMO

Re: The curious star appeal of Jordan Peterson

#40

Post by Synaesthesia » Sat, Jan 20, 2018, 3:17 PM UTC

just2n wrote: post #22

Dowwie wrote: post #6

To give someone a better idea who Jordan Peterson is and his experience with those in mass media: https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/01/watch-cathy-newmans-ca... I knew of Peterson but never read his work nor heard him speak. This interview could be an important piece for university level discussion. I think it summarizes problems among the media and intellectuals like Peterson.

I can think of perhaps no better example than this interview of why I like Peterson. He's criticized as "on the right" because he disagrees with feminism, neoliberalism, and marxism (it's more cultural marxism, which he calls neomarxism). That is a reactionary label, and it doesn't fit, which is precisely the problem with modern politics. A decade, maybe 15 years ago, Peterson would've been right in the middle of the…

“Cultural Marxism”is an invention of the right, basically it means any kind of change from the status quo.