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Your recruiter is not your friend

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Your recruiter is not your friend

#31
post #28
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently interviewed someone for the new company I just started working for. This candidate was recommended by someone already in the company for a position we're trying to fill. The company reached out to their staffing firm, and contacted him through them. So, that's what I mean by D.C. tech companies, they seems to LOVE using recruiters. Thank you for the article. To actually get to the point, I'm not sure how h…

I think a big part of the issue is why do you need to tell them your salary? why doesn't the recruiter tell you the expected salary range. The same questions can be answered...

In D.C., the place where I've spent most of my adult career, that is the case. If your recruiter doesn't tell you the salary range, it's because they (75%) honestly don't know themselves. Either because it may be based on experience of the candidate, or because there are multiple roles which you as a candidate could fill and the company doesn't want to throw out numbers to confuse/hide things.

In fact, it's usually the opposite situation here. It's weird to NOT know the salary range, and how much wiggle room there is. (It honestly helps that salary range is usually defined in the proposal for contract companies to the government, and they've already built in profit before they even begin to hire employees.)

Re: Your recruiter is not your friend

#32
Most of my experience with recruiters has matched this article. Recruiting, on a small scale, is the "volume game" described in this article.

That said, the best recruiters I've known don't look at the game like that. Imagine how the real estate business would change if homeowners were selling a house every couple of years. Realtors would want to attract and nurture relationships with homeowners selling the most expensive houses in order to secure many recurring high-value payoffs. They'd also know that "high-value" homeowners are likely to be friends with other high-value homeowners. If they do their best for one homeowner, that one will likely lead them to other homeowners and high-value payoffs.

Of course, there are precious few recruiters who truly take that approach (even though they all claim otherwise.) Recruiters aren't a free lunch. It takes time and effort to find the rare recruiters who truly want you to maximize your career potential. If/when you find one who truly gets it, however, you should try to nurture that relationship. (You both stand to make a lot of money off of each other over the course of your careers.)

My last job hunt ended in an offer through a recruiter. The offer was a 40% raise from the job I was working at the time. The recruiter was initially skeptical about my desired salary range (which was actually lower than I ended up getting offered), but she listened when I said that I'd be able to get that number.

I wouldn't have been able to get that much money without this recruiter's help. I had another offer at that time where the company asked me what I thought was reasonable and just gave me that. The number was ~15% lower than the offer through the recruiter. She had all the data on what other engineers with comparable skills/experience were making, so she was able to help me realize that I was undercutting myself.

To be clear, this recruiter is an exception to the rule. She's certainly not the only recruiter I've worked with, but she's the first and only recruiter I'll reach out to when I'm looking for new opportunities. She's been a tremendous help in my career, and I try to help her whenever I can by introducing her to great engineers that fit roles she's looking for. Pretty much every other recruiter I've worked with has fit the description laid out in this article.

(full disclosure: I consider this recruiter to be one of my closest friends, so my views are surely biased.)

Re: Your recruiter is not your friend

#33

I don’t get the dislike for recruiters? I use them to boost my salary when asked how much I’m making. I say 1/4 more then reality. From there they boost their offer. Why not use recruiters to give yourself a big fat raise? They are after all coming after you. Only downside of recruiters for me has been they are distracting and blow up your ego thinking you can find any job. Yet their offerings are only prospective.

I don't dislike recruiters at all. They're making a living helping place people in jobs - that's a useful thing to do. But it's important to distinguish "placing people in jobs" from "looking at for the best interests of those people by getting them the best compensation package possible". It's important to take agency of the salary conversation because it can be so valuable for the candidate to handle that and maxim…

Unless you're a special snowflake and you know your market, how much of a salary negotiating is there? I ask for X which I believe is in the middle of the range, I work with 7-8 recruiting companies and they send me jobs offering X. I don't believe I've ever been that much off the mark from my market value.

Especially since I was always looking for a job with the next job in my mind it was always some combination of pay and new skills I could learn.

If my market value got to out of whack with my salary I start interviewing again.

Re: Your recruiter is not your friend

#34
The article doesnt describe "your recruiter". It describes some random person calling you asking you about switching jobs.

MY recruiter is often somebody i have a working relationship with, i trust to some extent, and I've vetted. The author seems to not understand this dynamic.

I love my recruiters i work with. I make sure they understand and specialize in my industry, have a good reputation, have good connections, i can't talk honestly too, and other intangibles.

Of course a recruiter isn't trying to get you the very best offer in purely numeric terms, and neither should you. But both of you have the same problem and your incentives are aligned: you shouldn't take two more months to secure and extra $5000 since you are giving up way more in foregone salary.

There are a lot of bad recruiters out there, but you need to make am effort to deal with good ones. Don't treat your resume like buckshot and spray it everywhere. Work with good recruiters and you'll be fine.

And stop the recruiter hate. If you treat your recruiters as enemies, instead of valuable business relationships, I expect you'll probably have problems.

Re: Your recruiter is not your friend

#37

>salary negotiations This is an obvious one. I've dealt with a ton of recruiters over the years. If they're not willing to discuss a range upfront with you (amongst other things), they're lying to you. THERE IS NO JOB. They're just building their virtual rolodex for future sales. If they want to grill you about what you do, who you know, references, etc. before revealing the name and location of the client... THERE I…

I'm 3 years into my career with a M.S in CS and I don't know how to read a TCP dump or Nessus report :( Guess I should be a recruiter. Oh wait, I used to be!

Re: Your recruiter is not your friend

#38

>salary negotiations This is an obvious one. I've dealt with a ton of recruiters over the years. If they're not willing to discuss a range upfront with you (amongst other things), they're lying to you. THERE IS NO JOB. They're just building their virtual rolodex for future sales. If they want to grill you about what you do, who you know, references, etc. before revealing the name and location of the client... THERE I…

I'm 3 years into my career with a M.S in CS and I don't know how to read a TCP dump or Nessus report :( Guess I should be a recruiter. Oh wait, I used to be!

Good for you, you're an exception far removed from the rule.
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