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DNS over HTTPS

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Re: DNS over HTTPS

#31

Post by bruce_one »

yeukhon wrote: post #24
pilif wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every response is return asynchronously, we can achieve nonblocking. same goes for UDP which DNS runs over normally. Like the original commenter, I fail to see how stacking DNS over HTTP over TLS over TCP over IP is going to be faster than running DNS over UDP over IP. Also, you still need to resolve the address of your DNS-over-HTTP server, which you'd probably still do over traditional DNS-over-UDP. This feels li…

I would love to know how widely used UDP over TLS is in the wild.

Not quite the same, but QUIC is close to this description description, so it might be higher than initially expected?

From 2016: https://www.bizety.com/2016/01/26/half-of-chrome-to-google-t...

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#32

Post by [deleted] »

coinerone wrote: post #9
politelemon wrote: post #3

> for privacy, performance and security. I understand the privacy and security aspects. But I am wondering - how can DNS over HTTPS be more performant in the case of curl commands? A browser could probably persist the connection to the resolver and issue several requests together, but with a single curl command surely there's the overhead of initiating the first DNS resolve, the HTTPS connection, the second DNS resol…

"Performant" is a word in German. It translates to exact what "perfomant" would mean in english if it were an english word. The funny thing is, google translate, translates the german word "performant" to the english word "performant". https://translate.google.com/?hl=de#de/en/per%C2%ADfor%C2%AD...

[deleted]

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#33

Post by metafunctor »

kodablah wrote: post #29
metafunctor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone give examples of cases where “performant” would be better than “efficient”? To my mind, the difference is that “performant” delivers results quickly, whereas “efficient” uses little energy. A performant solution might be efficient, but not necessarily, and vice versa. Does anyone else share this understanding or am I living in a linguistic bubble? Not sure about Swedish (Daniel is Swedish), but in Finnish,…

"My mining algorithm, which uses a lot more CPU and memory, is more performant." The key being that performant is often associated w/ speed (i.e. higher performing) whereas efficient ambiguously can refer to many things you have improved on.

Yep, that's how I understand the word “performant” as well. A car that accelerates from 0-100 kph in under 3 seconds would be ”performant”. A car is “efficient” if it burns less than 4 liters of gasoline per 100 kilometers.

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#34

Post by tylerhou »

_0w8t wrote: post #27

I can see how DNS over HTTPS addresses security, but I do not see how it helps with privacy. After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted, so one can just eavesdrop on that. And if encrypted DNS becomes widespread, I suspect that various state-imposed firewalls like one Russia will just look for HTTPS connection header to block a particular site.

> After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the host name is generally only sent in an HTTP header, which should be encrypted over HTTPS.

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Ho...

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#35

Post by pjc50 »

tylerhou wrote: post #34
_0w8t wrote: post #27

I can see how DNS over HTTPS addresses security, but I do not see how it helps with privacy. After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted, so one can just eavesdrop on that. And if encrypted DNS becomes widespread, I suspect that various state-imposed firewalls like one Russia will just look for HTTPS connection header to block a particular site.

> After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the host name is generally only sent in an HTTP header, which should be encrypted over HTTPS. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Ho...

No, in order to multi-host SSL sites the host name has to be sent first in order for the correct certificate to be presented.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Name_Indication

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#36

Post by vectorEQ »

kodablah wrote: post #29
metafunctor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can anyone give examples of cases where “performant” would be better than “efficient”? To my mind, the difference is that “performant” delivers results quickly, whereas “efficient” uses little energy. A performant solution might be efficient, but not necessarily, and vice versa. Does anyone else share this understanding or am I living in a linguistic bubble? Not sure about Swedish (Daniel is Swedish), but in Finnish,…

"My mining algorithm, which uses a lot more CPU and memory, is more performant." The key being that performant is often associated w/ speed (i.e. higher performing) whereas efficient ambiguously can refer to many things you have improved on.

'performs more [efficiently|accuratley]' would be proper english (not that i speak it well.... :D).

webster says:

"performant"

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search bar above.

    preformant performance performing performances performable preformants perforate conformant perform formant performed informant performer perforata performers performs preformat

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#37

Post by [deleted] »

tylerhou wrote: post #34
_0w8t wrote: post #27

I can see how DNS over HTTPS addresses security, but I do not see how it helps with privacy. After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted, so one can just eavesdrop on that. And if encrypted DNS becomes widespread, I suspect that various state-imposed firewalls like one Russia will just look for HTTPS connection header to block a particular site.

> After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure the host name is generally only sent in an HTTP header, which should be encrypted over HTTPS. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Headers/Ho...

[deleted]

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#38

Post by rqs »

_0w8t wrote: post #27

I can see how DNS over HTTPS addresses security, but I do not see how it helps with privacy. After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted, so one can just eavesdrop on that. And if encrypted DNS becomes widespread, I suspect that various state-imposed firewalls like one Russia will just look for HTTPS connection header to block a particular site.

Well, unencrypted data by nature are vulnerable to tamper. Say change the DNS answer to point the client to another IP address in this case.

Of course DNS over HTTPS is not a sliver bullet that will ensure your privacy, instead, it's one step towards better security and thus (hopefully) privacy.

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#39

Post by jopsen »

_0w8t wrote: post #27

I can see how DNS over HTTPS addresses security, but I do not see how it helps with privacy. After resolving the IP address over secure connection HTTPS still sends the host name unencrypted, so one can just eavesdrop on that. And if encrypted DNS becomes widespread, I suspect that various state-imposed firewalls like one Russia will just look for HTTPS connection header to block a particular site.

Are you talking about leaking names through TLS?

As I understand it, this would fix leaking during DNS resolution, fixing any leaks from TLS is a separate issue. And yes, when that's fixed, you'll still be leaking destination IP.

But if not one step at time, how is it going to get better? :)

Re: DNS over HTTPS

#40

Post by barrkel »

metafunctor wrote: post #26
CogitoCogito wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Side note - I just learned that performant is not a recognized word ( https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38945/what-is-wr... ) I don't personally use the word since there are many alternatives, but its use is now definitely widespread and consistently understood. There's really no argument against the fact that it has entered the English lexicon.

Can anyone give examples of cases where “performant” would be better than “efficient”? To my mind, the difference is that “performant” delivers results quickly, whereas “efficient” uses little energy. A performant solution might be efficient, but not necessarily, and vice versa. Does anyone else share this understanding or am I living in a linguistic bubble? Not sure about Swedish (Daniel is Swedish), but in Finnish,…

    efficiency = performance / resources
Efficient has connotations of economy, of optimal use of resources but with a hint of parsimony - another way to get efficiency is to reduce the denominator.

Performant emphasises the numerator much more.

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