Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks • Hacker News Board

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#31

Post by mrkstu » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 2:54 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #18

astr0n0m3r wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, there are perfectly good reasons the minimum wage should be below a "living wage".

No, there are literally no good reasons for that. If you work a full-time job, and I don't care what that job is, your employer absolutely should adequately compensate you, for the amount of time spent on your job. Your employer is buying your time, the most precious and absolutely non-renewable resource you have. Don't sell it too cheaply.

So teenagers working part-time need to earn a living wage? Having a one-size-fits-all number is damaging. The problem is workers who don't hone a useful skill and create a record of reliability. Anyone that does that won't be making the minimum wage after a little while, at least in the current economy.

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#32

Post by pc86 » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 2:56 PM UTC

pythonaut_16 wrote: post #28

csbrooks wrote: post #11

Is it really true that the minimum wage before was JUST at the point where replacing workers wasn't worth the cost, and now it's going just over that threshold? If they can find a way to replace workers with machines, my guess is they will. My local walmart has one worker managing about ten self-checkout stations now. Panera Bread has stations where you order your food; no cashier needed. And the wage they are paying…

At the same time, those same CEOs will create jobs and add employees if they think it will drive revenue or improve the business. An easy example with the fast food restaurants is that they keep opening new locations.

Aren't most fast food restaurants franchises, and the individual corporations running them own a handful in a fairly constrained geographic area? There are 3-4 companies that own the various McDonalds locations in my area and I don't think any of them own more than 3.

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#33

Post by ythn » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 2:58 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #18

astr0n0m3r wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, there are perfectly good reasons the minimum wage should be below a "living wage".

No, there are literally no good reasons for that. If you work a full-time job, and I don't care what that job is, your employer absolutely should adequately compensate you, for the amount of time spent on your job. Your employer is buying your time, the most precious and absolutely non-renewable resource you have. Don't sell it too cheaply.

Is being paid a non-living wage better than being paid nothing at all?

Say I am a one man shop. I would like an assistant, but I don't actually make enough to pay the assistant a "living wage". My options are to hire an assistant at non-living wages, or not hire an assistant at all. Which is preferable?

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#34

Post by pc86 » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 2:59 PM UTC

mrkstu wrote: post #31

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there are literally no good reasons for that. If you work a full-time job, and I don't care what that job is, your employer absolutely should adequately compensate you, for the amount of time spent on your job. Your employer is buying your time, the most precious and absolutely non-renewable resource you have. Don't sell it too cheaply.

So teenagers working part-time need to earn a living wage? Having a one-size-fits-all number is damaging. The problem is workers who don't hone a useful skill and create a record of reliability. Anyone that does that won't be making the minimum wage after a little while, at least in the current economy.

Minimum wage is less for teenagers. When I was 15 the minimum wage was $5.15 and I was paid $4.85 because that was the minimum wage for a 15 year old. And it wasn't because I received tips, where the minimum wage was even lower ($2.80 or so I think?)

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#35

Post by pc86 » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 3:00 PM UTC

ythn wrote: post #33

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there are literally no good reasons for that. If you work a full-time job, and I don't care what that job is, your employer absolutely should adequately compensate you, for the amount of time spent on your job. Your employer is buying your time, the most precious and absolutely non-renewable resource you have. Don't sell it too cheaply.

Is being paid a non-living wage better than being paid nothing at all? Say I am a one man shop. I would like an assistant, but I don't actually make enough to pay the assistant a "living wage". My options are to hire an assistant at non-living wages, or not hire an assistant at all. Which is preferable?

You can afford to hire a part-time assistant. You shouldn't be able to hire someone to work full-time for you for $20 a week. I hope that's obvious.

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#36

Post by prklmn » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 3:00 PM UTC

schnevets wrote: post #20

The Target near my apartment in Brooklyn is not giant, but due to population density it has a ton of registers. Over the holidays, the replaced a sizable chunk of these registers with self-checkout kiosks. Although there was a long line to use the self-checkout kiosks, it was a faster and better experience than waiting for a register to open. More importantly, there were still a lot of people working in this section.…

We as consumers will see no gains from using self service checkouts. I am doing the job that someone once did for me so that Target can make more money. Those efficiency gains for Target are a direct burden on me.

Also, I’d argue that self checkout is not faster than having someone checkout and someone bag for me, maybe it seemed faster in that scenario, but it’s unliekly faster in general.

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#37

Post by taoistextremist » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

These kiosks are already in tons of McDonald's locations from what I understand (I've only seen them in Canada but I'm told they're elsewhere) so I don't get the hesitation.

They work well, especially if there's a long line or you're hungover and don't want to talk to anybody.

What I'm wondering is when they're gonna figure out how to replace the cooks with machines (though that's a different task from kiosks, you need actual robotics) and staff the place with a single manager to deal with customer complaints.

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#38

Post by searine » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 3:01 PM UTC

My local Burger King has transitioned to this. I don't often eat there, but I'll admit it is a guilty pleasure.

One interesting thing I've noticed is that with ordering kiosks, I'm much more likely to be upsold.

Having all the option laid out in front of me, and no pressure from someone trying to "sell" me I find it far easier to select add ons.

This says to me that there is a profit motive beyond simple efficiency. It creates opportunity for better sales as well.

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#39

Post by Agustus » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 3:03 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #18

astr0n0m3r wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, there are perfectly good reasons the minimum wage should be below a "living wage".

No, there are literally no good reasons for that. If you work a full-time job, and I don't care what that job is, your employer absolutely should adequately compensate you, for the amount of time spent on your job. Your employer is buying your time, the most precious and absolutely non-renewable resource you have. Don't sell it too cheaply.

Entry level worker who is not valued the fluctuating livable wage level; where they do not have basic work skills. In San Fransciso, a livable wage might be around $50,000 ($12k for housing, 20k for all taxes, $8k for food and other housing necessities, and 10k for savings, clothes, or insurance); this basically means an hourly wage of $25/hr. As an entry level job this is not a good option for employers and thus why they turn to automation, they know the robots skill and value, but estimating if an entry person can meet these skills is nigh impossible.

The other end is that someone is able to underbid you for your time. Which means you can believe you are worth $25/hr, but get no jobs because Jim Burnett will do it for $24 or someone in a lower livable wage area will do it for $5. In this case, you will have no work based on your theory.

Re: Jack in the Box CEO reconsiders automation, kiosks

#40

Post by samfriedman » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 3:05 PM UTC

schnevets wrote: post #20

The Target near my apartment in Brooklyn is not giant, but due to population density it has a ton of registers. Over the holidays, the replaced a sizable chunk of these registers with self-checkout kiosks. Although there was a long line to use the self-checkout kiosks, it was a faster and better experience than waiting for a register to open. More importantly, there were still a lot of people working in this section.…

My favorite version of self-checkout is the ScanIt program that the grocery chain Stop & Shop offers. Using my smartphone, I can scan barcodes of items I put in my cart as I shop. At the self-checkout, I simply scan a QR code from my phone to load all my scanned items into the register. Any additional items like produce can be weighed and added at checkout, or I can use a barcode-printing scale while I shop. Then I simply scan any coupons and swipe my card to pay.

This means I can sort and bag my groceries into reusable bags as I shop, with no need to first put everything in my cart and then remove it all at checkout only to put it back in my cart again. I just grab and scan what I need, then pay and walk out. Employees will randomly check a sample of my cart once in a while (I've been checked maybe three times in a year) to make sure I'm not hiding anything I haven't paid for.

It's a fantastic system and has made my grocery trips hugely more time-efficient.