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Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

cnn.com

31–40 of 86 posts

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#31
post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

I've been a physician for about 16 years. I won't defend the guy, it's just that I routinely see things that I would consider worse: doctors drunk at work, doctors who sleep with medical students in exchange for good evaluations, rampant cheating in medical school, rampant stimulant abuse, and the list goes on and on...

It's unethical for sure, but I guess my gut reaction is that it's not necessarily an offense that demands termination.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#32
post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

I've been a physician for about 16 years. I won't defend the guy, it's just that I routinely see things that I would consider worse: doctors drunk at work, doctors who sleep with medical students in exchange for good evaluations, rampant cheating in medical school, rampant stimulant abuse, and the list goes on and on... It's unethical for sure, but I guess my gut reaction is that it's not necessarily an offense that…

[deleted]

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#33
post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

I've been a physician for about 16 years. I won't defend the guy, it's just that I routinely see things that I would consider worse: doctors drunk at work, doctors who sleep with medical students in exchange for good evaluations, rampant cheating in medical school, rampant stimulant abuse, and the list goes on and on... It's unethical for sure, but I guess my gut reaction is that it's not necessarily an offense that…

[deleted]

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#34
post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

If he'd done it to me, I'd have carved my name on his forehead. Completely unacceptable.

//edit// I'm not sure why this evokes such a strong reaction in me. I think it's because it's like a claim of "ownership".

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#35
This isn't the first time I've heard of such a thing. From When the Air Hits Your Brain: Tales from Neurosurgery by Frank Vertosick Jr:

> “He’s a big fan of yours, too, pal, ever since the bone flap thing.” The bone flap incident had occurred early in Gary’s chief year. Fred and Gary were performing a cranial operation to remove a benign brain tumor. Fred had performed the entire operation himself—a grave insult to a chief resident, known as “stealing the case.” After Fred left the OR, further irritating the chief by dumping upon him the tedium of closing the wound, an angry Gary had engraved the phrase “Fred sucks” with the electrocautery knife on the inside of the bone flap, the plate of skull bone that is temporarily sawed away to gain access to the brain. He had then wired the flap back into place, thinking that the inside of the patient’s skull would never again see the light of day. Unfortunately, the bone flap developed a staph infection and had to be removed a week later. Once contaminated with bacteria, the free piece of skull must be removed to cure the infection. The soft spot is filled in with plastic several months later. Gary coerced me into assisting Fred with the surgical removal of the infected flap. I’ll never forget the almost unintelligible stream of invectives that spewed forth when Fred saw Gary’s skull graffitti. Fred was too embarrassed to send the discarded flap to the pathology department as it was, and we spent an hour drilling the message off the bone before allowing it to leave the OR.

Considering the type of personality that surgery attracts, I see why this happens. That said, I don't think this is a common occurrence. (And it should go without saying, but such actions are unethical, unprofessional, and worthy of criminal charges.)

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#36
The branding itself is bad enough --to put another burden on the system of patients who are already in a bad enough state to need a transplant is just cruel-- but this also means that he prolonged the operation just to satisfy his vanity, possibly risking further complications, and wasting time that could benefit other patients.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#37
post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

I've been a physician for about 16 years. I won't defend the guy, it's just that I routinely see things that I would consider worse: doctors drunk at work, doctors who sleep with medical students in exchange for good evaluations, rampant cheating in medical school, rampant stimulant abuse, and the list goes on and on... It's unethical for sure, but I guess my gut reaction is that it's not necessarily an offense that…

>it's not necessarily an offense that demands termination.

Someone murdered someone near my workplace. This surgeon branding his initials on someone's liver isn't so bad in comparison. Therefore, it isn't so bad in the absolute.

You set up the slope yourself and then proceeded to slip on it.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#38
post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

I've been a physician for about 16 years. I won't defend the guy, it's just that I routinely see things that I would consider worse: doctors drunk at work, doctors who sleep with medical students in exchange for good evaluations, rampant cheating in medical school, rampant stimulant abuse, and the list goes on and on... It's unethical for sure, but I guess my gut reaction is that it's not necessarily an offense that…

You don't think he should lose his license?

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#39
post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

I've been a physician for about 16 years. I won't defend the guy, it's just that I routinely see things that I would consider worse: doctors drunk at work, doctors who sleep with medical students in exchange for good evaluations, rampant cheating in medical school, rampant stimulant abuse, and the list goes on and on... It's unethical for sure, but I guess my gut reaction is that it's not necessarily an offense that…

This seems way worse than those things. Relationship problems, nepotism, and drug and alcohol abuse are problems. But permanently vandalizing a living human body while the person is unconscious goes far beyond the pale. The person should do jail time in addition to being permanently barred from medicine. Defiling a patient's body for "fun" should be taken extremely seriously.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#40
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this isn't how we make decisions in our society. What if he hits a kid with his car, should we let him off the hook there too because 'he is needed by society'

You're comparing a victimless "crime" with injuring someone. That doesn't make any sense.

You think branding people is a victimless crime?
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