Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

spectacle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 389 posts

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#31

Post by kim_waxkoz »

Danihan wrote: post #14
babaganoosh89 wrote: post #11

Doing some back of the envelope math, US gov revenue is 3.31 trillion and the population size is 323.1 million. Which leaves about $10244 per capita to play with. How would a BI work, give people $7k per year and save 3k for military and basic services? Seems like BI would need big tax increases to become viable.

The math doesn't work and has never worked. UBI proponents will never talk math because it doesn't add up, even with the most casual analysis. $12k is the cited number that you see a lot in basic income discussions. That's just over the poverty level. That's not enough to live on and it's practically a bonus for some members of this site. It's not enough to do anything with. Even upon receiving that, many people woul…

lmao the nation is more than ready for universal healthcare as proved by polls over and over again-- its the politicians and their corporate interests that are not ready. please get more informed. im doubting you are even american based on how uninformed you are.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#32

Post by vonnik »

I support some form of UBI. My concern is that UBI is a classic redistributive strategy, and redistributive strategies have done poorly in America's long and ongoing class war. The most recent tax plan is a good example the haves winning another battle in that war. So the basic question for anyone who believes in UBI and economic justice is: How do you convince the wealthy and powerful to give up some of their wealth and power? Almost by definition, they can't be forced to do it, because wealth and power are their own defense against redistribution.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#33

Post by dougmany »

Danihan wrote: post #14
babaganoosh89 wrote: post #11

Doing some back of the envelope math, US gov revenue is 3.31 trillion and the population size is 323.1 million. Which leaves about $10244 per capita to play with. How would a BI work, give people $7k per year and save 3k for military and basic services? Seems like BI would need big tax increases to become viable.

The math doesn't work and has never worked. UBI proponents will never talk math because it doesn't add up, even with the most casual analysis. $12k is the cited number that you see a lot in basic income discussions. That's just over the poverty level. That's not enough to live on and it's practically a bonus for some members of this site. It's not enough to do anything with. Even upon receiving that, many people woul…

>One of the things that people forget is that if the robots really do come, yes, they will eliminate or change a lot of jobs, but the cost of goods and services will just go down and down and down.

So maybe $7000 can get you everything you need, including healthcare. People pay extra money for their house to be close to work. With no work, maybe that will open up places people will want to live.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#34

Post by Density »

babaganoosh89 wrote: post #11

Doing some back of the envelope math, US gov revenue is 3.31 trillion and the population size is 323.1 million. Which leaves about $10244 per capita to play with. How would a BI work, give people $7k per year and save 3k for military and basic services? Seems like BI would need big tax increases to become viable.

I'd like to do what the GOP did for the tax break and claim that the increase to the GDP by this additional influx of money will vastly increase our growth by an unrealistic amount!

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#35

Post by kim_waxkoz »

astrocat wrote: post #28
cm2012 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BI would get marginally smaller the more money you make. Not a steep cutoff like current services for poor, but it would probably be taxed as income so someone making 20'l,000 gets the full 7k, someone making 150k makes 3.5k.

Isn't the whole point of UBI that it isn't progressive, but rather universal ? Otherwise, it's essentially just another form of progressive income tax, where the bottom of the scale is a negative income tax. Right?

completely wrong and frankly im shocked you have the gaul to think so

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#36

Post by stcredzero »

drb91 wrote: post #19
Danihan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The math doesn't work and has never worked. UBI proponents will never talk math because it doesn't add up, even with the most casual analysis. $12k is the cited number that you see a lot in basic income discussions. That's just over the poverty level. That's not enough to live on and it's practically a bonus for some members of this site. It's not enough to do anything with. Even upon receiving that, many people woul…

I mean, tax the hell out of wealth. The math has never been the problem; it's always been taxing the wealthy that causes the conversation to die.

The math has never been the problem; it's always been taxing the wealthy that causes the conversation to die.

The problem with taxing the wealthy, is that they generally have an outsized share of the political power. I think that a better solution, from a political and psychological standpoint, would involve a voluntary system. If just rent could be covered, this would be the equivalent of $12k per year in many parts of the US:

http://www.elledecor.com/life-culture/news/a7635/german-vill...

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#37

Post by pdonis »

Sam makes an interesting analogy with Y Combinator as providing a form of "basic income" to people trying to start startups. However, this analogy ignores a huge difference in the two cases: the people who are trying to start startups with Y Combinator's help are a highly self-selected group. Giving them "basic income" often turns out to be highly productive, yes. But that does not imply that giving basic income to everybody would turn out to be highly productive.

To be fair, he does describe what he's attempting as an "experiment" and acknowledges that it might not work out the way he thinks.

Re: The Great American Share – Sam Altman Interview on Basic Income

#38

Post by creaghpatr »

drb91 wrote: post #19
Danihan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The math doesn't work and has never worked. UBI proponents will never talk math because it doesn't add up, even with the most casual analysis. $12k is the cited number that you see a lot in basic income discussions. That's just over the poverty level. That's not enough to live on and it's practically a bonus for some members of this site. It's not enough to do anything with. Even upon receiving that, many people woul…

I mean, tax the hell out of wealth. The math has never been the problem; it's always been taxing the wealthy that causes the conversation to die.

I might take Sam Altman seriously when I discover exactly how much of his own wealth he is willing to dilute to accomplish this dream.
Post reply on HN