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Telegram Isn't for Sale

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Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#31

Post by lentil_soup »

mrwong wrote: post #12
IBalic wrote: post #8

> A lot of people in the western world don’t realize how much taxes limit their options. You can end up paying almost half your income in taxes, which basically means you’re working for the government for 180 days a year. I think I can find better ways to use the money I make for the benefit of society. ok, so he's basically suggesting to get of rid government. I respect different stands on the size/role of the gover…

Tax burden in Germany for middleclass is at around 70%. Beeing a software engineer in germany means that you code 8months for the government and 4months for yourself. The western governments introduced more and more “hidden” taxes. So just looking at income tax is not fair. Just because he advocates for lower taxes doesn’t mean he want anarchy.

That's just a big lie, it's nowhere to 70%. Besides it will vary depending on your salary, your state and your personal situation (i.e. kids, married, age).

Also worth noting that that tax includes full health insurance.

You can easily calculate your take home pay for Germany here: http://www.parmentier.de/steuer/steuer.htm?wagetax.htm

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#32

Post by randomThoughts9 »

simonbarker87 wrote: post #6
thisisit wrote: post #4

>He sees Telegram as a charity that he’ll start to monetize early next year, but only enough to fund expansion. Charity and monetization don't go hand in hand.

Yeah they do, charities are just businesses that don’t distribute profits to share holders. Making money or not has nothing to do with charity status - it’s about what you do with the profits.

This is a very recent interpretation. It is legally true, but it goes against the true meaning of the word.

When you work for a charity, do you ask for a raise? Do you get a bonus if you collect more money? How much to you get to keep?

Not even mentioning that sometimes the money goes through a chain of charities, all making a living out of it, but leaving almost nothing for the final beneficiary.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#33

Post by aaronbrethorst »

nickik wrote: post #25
aaronbrethorst wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top marginal income tax rates under President Eisenhower (a Republican) were in the low 90%s. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/nov/...

This is a total BS argument. Nobody ever payed these taxes. Its far more accurate to look at what part of the GDP the government is spending. That number was the further back you go.

I'm citing my sources. You could at least show me the courtesy of doing the same.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#34

Post by fabian2k »

mrwong wrote: post #12
IBalic wrote: post #8

> A lot of people in the western world don’t realize how much taxes limit their options. You can end up paying almost half your income in taxes, which basically means you’re working for the government for 180 days a year. I think I can find better ways to use the money I make for the benefit of society. ok, so he's basically suggesting to get of rid government. I respect different stands on the size/role of the gover…

Tax burden in Germany for middleclass is at around 70%. Beeing a software engineer in germany means that you code 8months for the government and 4months for yourself. The western governments introduced more and more “hidden” taxes. So just looking at income tax is not fair. Just because he advocates for lower taxes doesn’t mean he want anarchy.

You're almost certainly including social security here, health care and retirement. This is not exactly a fair comparison, as in countries with lower tax burden you have to pay for those yourselves.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#35

Post by eps »

baybal2 wrote: post #9

FIY: While they claim being hounded back in Russia, and that they will be instantaneously jumped upon by 3 letter services if they were to run there, they were proven to have a huge office there as well as their main server infrastructure. Another red flag, is that they were never blocked in Russia. They look suspicious.

Got a source for the first claim?

Second would've been a red flag if the Russian gvmnt would've been routinely blocking other chat systems.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#36

Post by chrisper »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #20
yeukhon wrote: post #2

> The locations of his servers are a secret, as are many of the names of his employees, several of whom he’s said are fellow millionaires. How is that possible? Are the servers behind an onion network?

If the locations of his servers are merely a secret, isn't that just security through obscurity? Isn't that a serious weakness? Or is there a more advanced way his servers are kept secret than merely being a secret?

I think it is against physical seizure and tampering. A good part of security against that is obscurity, don't you think?

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#37

Post by laingc »

lentil_soup wrote: post #31
mrwong wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax burden in Germany for middleclass is at around 70%. Beeing a software engineer in germany means that you code 8months for the government and 4months for yourself. The western governments introduced more and more “hidden” taxes. So just looking at income tax is not fair. Just because he advocates for lower taxes doesn’t mean he want anarchy.

That's just a big lie, it's nowhere to 70%. Besides it will vary depending on your salary, your state and your personal situation (i.e. kids, married, age). Also worth noting that that tax includes full health insurance. You can easily calculate your take home pay for Germany here: http://www.parmentier.de/steuer/steuer.htm?wagetax.htm

That’s only income tax, not the total tax burden.

My total tax burden in Germany (Munich) was around 65%-ish, depending on exactly how aggressively you want to factor corporate taxes into consumer prices.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#38

Post by asadlionpk »

yeukhon wrote: post #2

> The locations of his servers are a secret, as are many of the names of his employees, several of whom he’s said are fellow millionaires. How is that possible? Are the servers behind an onion network?

A service like Cloudflare proxies requests through them, hiding the real servers and their IPs. I expect something like that here.

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#39

Post by germanier »

mrwong wrote: post #12
IBalic wrote: post #8

> A lot of people in the western world don’t realize how much taxes limit their options. You can end up paying almost half your income in taxes, which basically means you’re working for the government for 180 days a year. I think I can find better ways to use the money I make for the benefit of society. ok, so he's basically suggesting to get of rid government. I respect different stands on the size/role of the gover…

Tax burden in Germany for middleclass is at around 70%. Beeing a software engineer in germany means that you code 8months for the government and 4months for yourself. The western governments introduced more and more “hidden” taxes. So just looking at income tax is not fair. Just because he advocates for lower taxes doesn’t mean he want anarchy.

Any credible calculation[0] puts the tax burden of all groups at 50% at most (and most middle class is not taxed at that number) – including all taxes, contributions, levies, and VAT. You would have to add the employer's contributions to that number (but they are less than 10%).

A better measure would be the tax quota (gross national product divided by all taxes and contributions) which is about 35%. This is the effective rate the state gets for everything it does.

[0]: Such as the RWI study which really can't be accused of downplaying the numbers http://shop.freiheit.org/download/P2@675/96532/A4_Steuern%20...

Re: Telegram Isn't for Sale

#40

Post by SyneRyder »

krrrh wrote: post #23
_s wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tax burden in Germany for middleclass is at around 70%. Beeing a software engineer in germany means that you code 8months for the government and 4months for yourself. > The western governments introduced more and more “hidden” taxes. So just looking at income tax is not fair. Please don't pluck figures like that out of thin air - I worked in Berlin as a developer and I easily took home ~60% of my monthly salary (pl…

You’re not counting VAT which is 19% of most of what you purchase. Corporate tax is largely bundled into consumer prices as well, and depending on your consumption patterns, and transportations choices there are other taxes that apply. In no way is this list exhaustive.

There's also the compulsory 9% Church Tax in Germany, unless you formally renounce your religion:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/113...

Notably: "The changes include German banks now having to withhold the tax on capital gains of account-holders who are church members."

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