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CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

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Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#31

I think all the bitcoin fans making this out to be a big deal is kind of funny. The volume of futures exchanges shits on any of the fly-by-night bitcoin exchanges. Professional traders don’t google CBOE to look at marketing material, lol.

I think the consensus in the bitcoin community is that it won't have any effect and Bitcoin will continue chugging along as it has.

It was mainly the bears saying the futures would increase shorts on bitcoin.

Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though...

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#32

Ok, so these bitcoin futures let people bet on the future bitcoin price without actually owning any bitcoins, without having any actual stake in the actual market. (these futures are settled in cash, so nobody ever has to deliver any actual bitcoins) That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I am again amazed how the finance industry gets to have…

I thought the original idea of Bitcoin was to be a currency and make fiat money obsolete. The finance industry is simply acknowledging that it’s a speculative asset and mostly interesting for its volatility, something that fits well within its longstanding frameworks.

This is my thinking. The volatility of bitcoin is insane and fascinating. It’ll be a real experiment if futures flattens it out.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#34
post #5

Can someone explain how the bid/ask and data for futures can be interpreted? Sorry futures noob here.

You "lift the ask"(what you as a buyer are able to buy at), and "hit/slam the bid"( what you as a seller can sell at)

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#35
post #5

Can someone explain how the bid/ask and data for futures can be interpreted? Sorry futures noob here.

Bid is latest buy order. Ask/Offer is latest sell order. Many exchanges have the “maker-taker” model. If you add liquidity to the order book, you are paid by the Exchange. If you take liquidity away from the order book, you pay the Exchange.

What the market is quoted at , is the latest buy or sell order.

The price you can buy at is the ask, the price you can sell at is the bid.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#36

I think all the bitcoin fans making this out to be a big deal is kind of funny. The volume of futures exchanges shits on any of the fly-by-night bitcoin exchanges. Professional traders don’t google CBOE to look at marketing material, lol.

I think the consensus in the bitcoin community is that it won't have any effect and Bitcoin will continue chugging along as it has. It was mainly the bears saying the futures would increase shorts on bitcoin. Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though...

> Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though...

Why not? I can't believe anyone in their right mind would significantly invest in Bitcoin right now.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#37
post #4

And here I thought it was Bitcoin that had scaling issues. Someone should make a futures market for Bitcoin on the Ethereum block chain settled in ETH just for irony.

I'm honestly surprised that there aren't more crypto financial instruments that are implemented/valued in other cryptos.

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#38

Ok, so these bitcoin futures let people bet on the future bitcoin price without actually owning any bitcoins, without having any actual stake in the actual market. (these futures are settled in cash, so nobody ever has to deliver any actual bitcoins) That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I am again amazed how the finance industry gets to have…

It's for hedging exposure to reduce uncertainty. Futures markets historically reduce volatility and allow hedgers to plan ahead in their businesses. Speculators are there to provide liquidity and aid in price discovery. Yes, lots of caveats, but generally it seems to work. While initial bouts of increased volatility have sometimes come just before ("pre-hedging") and after the introduction of futures, their effect after an initial period has been to markedly reduce volatility. I can't see how BTC could survive without futures, tbh, though I'm actually a pessimist who thinks the blockchain will find other uses.

OK, think of bitcoin as a means of exchange. Thing is, it's so volatile and potentially slow that who knows what value you're going to actually get on the other side of a transaction. You transfer one BTC but by the time it arrives at the other side it could be worth $2,000 less, so you're in the hole $2,000? Good grief. Likewise if you accept payment in BTC, you must wait for it to arrive. In an active, healthy futures market, you can dip in and out with extreme speed and ease

Futures allow me to hedge transaction, mining and other uncertain time (assuming the futures contracts are actually popular) by hedging. However, because the few people who actually use BTC for something other than speculation probably don't typically send and receive whole bitcoins, or in the CME futures case, five BTC at a time, the futures markets might in fact be useful for... intermediaries?

Anyway, BTC is even too wild a ride for futures! Clearing houses (who accept responsibility if losing traders go broke and can't pay what they owe) aren't all so eager to jump in, because, you know, danger. Also, futures markets have price limits that act like circuit breakers to calm things down when the trading gets too insane -- "limit up" and "limit down" -- when trading is halted, and you can neither buy nor sell. This is a dangerous time, and if you've traded on these markets you'll know that you can feel like you're going to have a heart attack when the market is flying dramatically, suddenly trading stops, and you have no idea at what price it will reopen. But BTC has been reaching this kind of limit range with increasing frequency.

The various exchanges are constantly trying out new products, and most of them never catch on. So, who knows about BTC.

Anyway, if you don't think that Bitcoin should be connected to the rest of the world, including the financial world, then why use them?

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#39
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That seems to be an ultimate insult and revenge of the finance industry toward the original idea behind bitcoin. I don't think you need to pass any sort moral judgement about the existence of this. Cash-settled futures exist for almost all traded commodities (oil, gold, pork bellies at one point...)

Not my moral judgement, I think the creator of bitcoin was quite explicit in his (or her) disapproval of the finance industry and governments inflating the economy by injecting large amounts of money, and went on to create a currency with a fixed supply. It is ironic these futures are effectively leveraged bitcoins, needing central trust. I'm pretty sure Satoshi would not approve. That said, I do question the value o…

Well Satoshi also created a currency which is completely usuited for the task due to it's limited supply as well as a host of external issues. So... meh?

Re: CBOE exchange website down minutes after releasing Bitcoin futures

#40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the consensus in the bitcoin community is that it won't have any effect and Bitcoin will continue chugging along as it has. It was mainly the bears saying the futures would increase shorts on bitcoin. Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though...

> Can't imagine anyone in their right mind would short bitcoin right now though... Why not? I can't believe anyone in their right mind would significantly invest in Bitcoin right now.

That doesn't mean you should short it. Bitcoin is casually up 6% today, in recent history it has had daily gains in excess of 20%. It can rise by multiple percent in a few minutes.

You would have to be completely nuts to short it, regardless of what you think it is going to do in the medium-term.

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