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“I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

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Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#31

Post by smacktoward »

realityking wrote: post #28
chickenfries wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority arguing like the author are not ok with this Your critique isn't very strong when it hinges on supposing something that is not supported by the text, merely by hyperbolic "whatabouts" that you assume the answer you wan't to critique. You're putting the author in a box rather than engaging with the words that they wrote.

I’d agree if this was an active discussion between the author and me. But I’m posing a question to an author of a piece written 17 years ago... Allow me to reframe the question: if you’re fine with the book as-written, would you still be fine with it if it expressed the opposite political views?

Your commitment to arguing hypotheticals instead of engaging with anything the author actually wrote is impressive.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#32

Post by Splines »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #2

I think I disagree with him here. I tend to think that examples like his (polarizing topics) are distracting to the message of the content. I teach students, and they are, quite literally, paying me for my knowledge and experience about that subject, not for me to distract everyone with my personal opinions about unrelated issues. I doubt that any of them even know my political beliefs.

I agree with the article, at least in that our values and beliefs end up embedded in the examples (e.g., all the emp/dept examples).

You need to use some kind of data to help the reader, an abstract concept isn't going to work.

I do disagree with the author in that pushing a political viewpoint in an example is in poor taste and makes understanding the example difficult for readers unfamiliar with any jargon.

Maybe examples that draw from nature (e.g., taxonomy hierarchy) or the humanities (e.g., cataloging a library) would be different enough to be refreshing and less... capitalistic.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#33

Post by Ice_cream_suit »

Scholarly papers* on the design of atomic weapons would be better if the equations indicated how many humans would be killed.

So why cavil at the author suggesting, through the thoughful use of examples that certain modes of acting have real world consequences ?

* Undoubtedly heavily classified. But have a look at the unclassified article I have linked to in another submission on nuclear warhead reentry vehicle design...

Certain assumptions would have to be made on the density of inhabitation of the target zones.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#34

Post by dymk »

Retra wrote: post #7
gozur88 wrote: post #4

That's the last book I'd buy from that author. If you want to write about politics, write about politics. Don't try to sneak your political views into a technical book.

What is this? "Write about what you want, but only if I also want it!" He wants to write a technical book with political examples, and did. How do you justify the requirement that books must into clean archetypical categories against the "do what you want" argument you just made?

The title of the book is "Oracle PL/SQL Programming: Guide to Oracle8i Features", not "Oracle PL/SQL Programming, plus my rambling political edge"

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#36

Post by Retra »

dymk wrote: post #34
Retra wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is this? "Write about what you want, but only if I also want it!" He wants to write a technical book with political examples, and did. How do you justify the requirement that books must into clean archetypical categories against the "do what you want" argument you just made?

The title of the book is "Oracle PL/SQL Programming: Guide to Oracle8i Features", not "Oracle PL/SQL Programming, plus my rambling political edge"

I'm not sure why you think that's a prohibition on political content in examples. Lots of technical books have diatribes concerning many things irrelevant to the subject matter.

I read a programming book that dared to have jokes in it once. Gasp! One even talked about DNA and the wagging of dogs' tails. I suppose we've got to be extra puritanical and dogmatic once our delicate political sensitivities become more important than learning something. That way lies progress.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#37

Post by chickenfries »

realityking wrote: post #28
chickenfries wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The vast majority arguing like the author are not ok with this Your critique isn't very strong when it hinges on supposing something that is not supported by the text, merely by hyperbolic "whatabouts" that you assume the answer you wan't to critique. You're putting the author in a box rather than engaging with the words that they wrote.

I’d agree if this was an active discussion between the author and me. But I’m posing a question to an author of a piece written 17 years ago... Allow me to reframe the question: if you’re fine with the book as-written, would you still be fine with it if it expressed the opposite political views?

I don't think all political views are equivalent. Of course I'm supportive of opinions that I agree with, like you point out. Opinions I disagree with or espouse a world-view that is different than mine? Of course I'm fine with that. I read and own many authors I disagree with because I value the knowledge gained by reading them and understanding their words, even if I disagree.

Your example though? > Let’s say for advocating for arming every American or against gay marriage.

Arming them for what? To shoot gays? Yeah I would probably be pretty upset about that. Advocating ethnic cleansing? "Alternative facts" about vaccines?

If I were on Twitter or something I might tweet, or write a blog post about it trying to convince the publishers to change their mind or encouraging others to support different publishers. I don't think that makes me a book burner.

In reality though unless it was something truly vile or dangerous that crosses some sort of hard to define personal line I would probably not do anything at all... I'm not a despotic ruler who cannot abide the existence of mere words I disagree with...

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#38

Post by davegardner »

In the books I've written I added references to movies that I liked as part of the examples. I remember including a "PC Load Letter" error message as a homage to Office Space. Other examples were more obscure, such an address or phone number of one of the characters in the movie.

Re: “I Don't Like Your Examples” (2000)

#40

Post by quickthrower2 »

heartbreak wrote: post #39
quickthrower2 wrote: post #8

I wonder if any of the 'political' code has worked it's way via cargo-cult programming into production

From the example listed, it’s political data, not political code.

Political schema:

INSERT INTO war_criminal (name, activity) VALUES (culprit, event);

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