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Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

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Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#31

Post by petercooper »

rbanffy wrote: post #27
petercooper wrote: post #4

I listen to a BBC medical podcast (Medical Matters - it's really good) and recently they were at a critical injuries unit in London. The reporter asked the head of the unit why 90% of the patients there were men. The blunt answer given was that men take more extreme risks and are, therefore, more likely to need emergency medical attention. I could hear the PC brigade warming up their pens to correct that observation…

If the same number of women engaged in the same kind of risky activities as the men injured in this specific hospital, the lack of women could be explained by men being less competent in these risky activities. It would be as sexist as the above answer. Could also be that men are more fragile.

I agree it could be any of those things. Observationally, though, I concur with the doctor based merely on the lack of women I see running across the road in front of my car, skateboarding, BMX biking, base jumping, or generally pratting about in public compared to men.

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#32

Post by rogermugs »

rbanffy wrote: post #29
elbrodeur wrote: post #7

Interesting take on things, especially from a woman. Typically, this stance: "How can we make more women successful? Without fundamental changes in how men and women perceive attractiveness, it will be difficult to change the status quo. ... what about making the next "Carrie Bradshaw" a hardworking tech entrepreneur?" is taken by men. I think that the "reason" that there are fewer female entrepreneurs and hackers th…

> what's wrong with women. Nothing is wrong. There is no wrong. People are different. I like to say I was born an engineer, that's some neurological condition I can't escape. Is there something wrong with me? Of course not!

are you trying to argue that nothing is wrong with women? is that seriously what you're trying to argue?

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#33

Post by saulhoward »

dmor wrote: post #20

I don't ever want to take funding from something like XX Combinator, its just insulting to think I'd be getting money because of something I have no control over like my gender. I want to earn my success because of the things I can control and what I create with my own mind and hands and hard work. Btw ladies, there are men out there who admire a woman who is strong and successful - and they're worth searching for. S…

Perhaps it's worth pointing out that Americans receiving funding are already "getting money because of something [they] have no control over", like their nationality.

I am assuming here that an investor would be more likely to invest in an entrepreneur with a green card. They would certainly be saving money by doing so.

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#34

Post by anamax »

ScotterC wrote: post #8

I feel that this it ignores the greater purpose that mankind has. Greater then finding a mate. Creating and building. That is universal and is gender neutral.

> I feel that this it ignores the greater purpose that mankind has. Greater then finding a mate. Creating and building. That is universal and is gender neutral.

Mankind doesn't have that purpose and may not even have any purposes. Many people value certain things, but that's very different.

Don't confuse what survival often selects for with purpose.

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#35

Post by rbanffy »

petercooper wrote: post #31
rbanffy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the same number of women engaged in the same kind of risky activities as the men injured in this specific hospital, the lack of women could be explained by men being less competent in these risky activities. It would be as sexist as the above answer. Could also be that men are more fragile.

I agree it could be any of those things. Observationally, though, I concur with the doctor based merely on the lack of women I see running across the road in front of my car, skateboarding, BMX biking, base jumping, or generally pratting about in public compared to men.

My point is that the statement of a fact cannot be considered sexist. My own observations confirm your observations. Among my friends who parachute there are about 20 men and 2 women. This ratio is much higher than the overall ratio of men to women among my friends.

More observation than ours should be made before we conclude men have a higher probability to engage in physically dangerous forms of entertainment, but I would say it's a good bet they do.

At least in our society.

How much of it is nature and how much is nurture is what seems controversial.

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#36

Post by ScotterC »

anamax wrote: post #34
ScotterC wrote: post #8

I feel that this it ignores the greater purpose that mankind has. Greater then finding a mate. Creating and building. That is universal and is gender neutral.

> I feel that this it ignores the greater purpose that mankind has. Greater then finding a mate. Creating and building. That is universal and is gender neutral. Mankind doesn't have that purpose and may not even have any purposes. Many people value certain things, but that's very different. Don't confuse what survival often selects for with purpose.

Looks like we're headed down a path that reflects our philosophical outlook more then anything else. To each his own.

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#37

Post by Mz »

I think it boils down to the economics of having children: Most women (about 90%) have them sooner or later. It helps to have two parents to provide for the kid(s). Lots of other stuff grows out of this basic fact, including the typical female emphasis on "attractiveness" -- because that is (theoretically) how you get a man.

Short version of a lot of reading I have done over the years: European women put a lot of emphasis on getting assistance from society and government with the burden of bearing and rearing children. This has helped narrow the gender-gap on income, generally without pushing up the divorce rate to American levels. But in America, women generally have taken the political position of "Don't tread on me" and "Get the fuck out my way and I will show you what I can do, damnit!", which is a historical American political position dating back to the American Revolution. This works fairly well -- until you have kids. Women who are unmarried and childless make about 98% of what men make, given similar experience and education. But, overall, American women make about 2/3 what men make, the same figure listed somewhere in the bible as their difference in value (ie from about 2000 years or so ago).

Some of the most frustrated, baffled women I have known are women who thought they could make it on a man's terms in a man's world and did quite well for themselves -- that is until they had children. Then it all fell apart and they couldn't figure out wtf happened or how the hell to fix it. I think I am still alive and doing better than I "should" be because I never tried to make it in a man's world on a man's terms. I followed a female path of success. So having kids unexpectedly early derailed my immediate career plans but did not derail my life unrecoverably.

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#38

Post by ahinds »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #26
Groxx wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the unconscious mind? Psychiatric therapy? Freud wasn't just "sexsexsexsexsex".

The unconscious mind is a millenia old idea and psychiatric medicine is roughly as effective as having a chat with a random untrained person. His work on curing heroin addiction was interesting, even took the remedy himself and found it really perked him up. Cocaine really is a wonder drug.

I'm a psychiatrist. This statement is obviously not true. Please substantiate with literature reference.

Re: Freud explains why there aren't more women entrepreneurs

#40

Post by sprout »

hakl wrote: post #12
sprout wrote: post #5

Curious that xkcd commented on this sort of thinking just Wednesday: http://www.xkcd.com/775/ Though most of the article remains very relevant when you take it out of the "this is the way it has been for thousands of years" mold which doesn't really have incredibly ironclad evidence and recognize that our present society does present these barriers for women. But I do think that overcoming our perceptions is not a ma…

A Freudian explanation isn't the same as an based on "evolutionary histories". Her last paragraph is about changing perceptions of attractiveness.

I realize her argument was not a cut-and-dry evo-psych narrative, but she came close, and this paragraph in particular felt suspect:

>For thousands of years, men look for beautiful and young-looking women to bear their children and women look for powerful men who can well protect themselves and their children. Such an instinct has been imprinted into our unconsciousness.

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