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Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

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Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#31

Post by Retric »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #12
Retric wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your pulling in ~10,000$ per person in tuition, and the average person takes 5 classes with a class size of 30 that's. 60,000$ per professor per year if they teach 4 classes, 75,000$ per professor if they teach 5 and 90k & 6 classes before expenses per class. So, the only way for that to work out is some other subsidies. However, lectures allow you to use TA's to more cheaply expand class sizes and might make it p…

But Brown's tuition for out of state students is just under $50,000 per year per student. Does that mean they could be paying those professors $300,000?

That's nominally 50k/student they can then offer scholarships so it's possibly nobody actually pays that much.

Further, just having a teacher without a classroom is not going to get you very far. Still, assuming the average student pays 1/2 that much per year they can probably cut the costs significantly.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#32

Post by pc86 »

bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

> Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M?

Because the Third Associate Dean of Humanities can't fund their $600k salary with the goodwill from a more reasonable tuition.

Snark aside, it's because the administrators are attacking a symptom - high tuition prices - and not the illness - administrative bloat and universities that are not run by academics, but by Professional Educators who in many cases have never taught a class in their lives, or haven't taught in the past n decades.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#33

Post by refurb »

wbkang wrote: post #23
Improvotter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recently met an American here in Europe that mostly grew up here the last few years who wanted to go to NA (more specifically Toronto) for university when she could basically enrol here in a good university for a fraction of the cost. I pay less than a gran every year for my software engineering master's degree and can't fathom someone going to a different country knowing you're gonna be in debt for a large portion…

Canadians university has far lower tuition than the US equivalent. It's also easier to immigrate when you have a Canadian degree so the story might be a bit different for Canada.

Tuition is far lower if you're a Canadian citizen or resident. If you're foreign, it costs $25,000+ per year which isn't that different from public US universities.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#34

Post by mnx »

dalbasal wrote: post #16
reverend_gonzo wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You still have to pay market rate for professors, executives, maintenance, etc, if you want to stay relevant. You can't just decide to reduce your income and expect nothing else to change. They're changing where their getting the income from, probably with the idea that former students of Brown who are now doing very well, will be willing to pay it forward to a new student who is in a similar position as they used to…

The exploding cost of education over the last generation doesn't boil down to an increase in teaching or even research staff costs. These costs are stable, largely thanks to the very low cost of junior academics. In the US, "administration staff" (everyone else) has blown up by 500% or more, proportionally. There have also been increases in non staff related costs. University' are fancier, more expensive and more inc…

This is true of many things, but seems to be politically unpopular to notice. The right will claim that prices are what prices are and cannot be changed, and the left will claim it's all in resource allocation.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#35

Post by dm3730 »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #6
bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

You still have to pay market rate for professors, executives, maintenance, etc, if you want to stay relevant. You can't just decide to reduce your income and expect nothing else to change. They're changing where their getting the income from, probably with the idea that former students of Brown who are now doing very well, will be willing to pay it forward to a new student who is in a similar position as they used to…

> You still have to pay market rate for professors, executives, maintenance, etc, if you want to stay relevant.

I'll venture that it's the executives who are pulling in the big bucks. Looking at the glassdoor numbers, profs are peaking at under $200k, the vast majority well under $100k. Contrast that with Comms directors making $250k.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#36

Post by [deleted] »

bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

[deleted]

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#37

Post by salvar »

pc86 wrote: post #32
bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

> Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? Because the Third Associate Dean of Humanities can't fund their $600k salary with the goodwill from a more reasonable tuition. Snark aside, it's because the administrators are attacking a symptom - high tuition prices - and not the illness - administrative bloat and universiti…

Are you sure you put the snark aside?

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#38

Post by pc86 »

elsherbini wrote: post #26
bmcusick wrote: post #2

Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? The student loan crisis is only a crisis because Universities (lead by the Ivy League and similarly elite private colleges) are charging exorbitant prices for tuition, room, and board. This isn't charity or benevolent. This is just bilking a different class of people. Efforts to…

Today's elite schools offer myriad resources to students that they didn't before. And today's elite schools are therefore able to serve a much more diverse group of students. I think administrative costs have gone up too much and have space to cut back. But when articles come out saying administrative costs have ballooned 500%, I don't want people to imagine that it's all wasted - most of the new positions represent…

I don't think anyone's saying it's all wasted, and I agree that a university in 2015 is going to offer a lot more to its students in terms of non-academic services than a university of 1985. But it's hard to argue that even half of that 500% is good spending.

- The year I started my undergrad, there a mini-scandal where tuition was raised by over 10% with little warning and it leaked that the school President, having written a heart felt letter about how hard it was cutting costs in these difficult economic times, made over $400k/yr and the college was paying his mortgage. Nearly $600k adjusted for inflation.

- At that same undergrad institution, the career services officer, responsible for finding people jobs (or at least helping), had never held a job outside of that college, and would do little more than putting your resume on Monster for you.

Just two examples from my limited academic experience (undergrad only) at one small liberal arts school nobody's ever heard of. I'm sure the graduate folks here could throw dozens of examples at you of much more egregious things.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#39

Post by pc86 »

salvar wrote: post #37
pc86 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not that loan-free educations are bad, but why is Brown raising $120M from alumni and the like, rather than lowering their tuition by $120M? Because the Third Associate Dean of Humanities can't fund their $600k salary with the goodwill from a more reasonable tuition. Snark aside, it's because the administrators are attacking a symptom - high tuition prices - and not the illness - administrative bloat and universiti…

Are you sure you put the snark aside?

OK maybe some of the snark was still there, but at least I got rid of the hyperbole :)

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#40

Post by ameister14 »

votepaunchy wrote: post #19

> "The university plans to add $4.5 million to its financial aid budget each year to cover its 6,500 undergraduates." ~$700 per student. > "In 2016, the average Brown student graduated with a debt of $23,810, compared with $8,908 for Princeton, which adopted the no-loans policy in 2001." The increased financial aid may not even cover the annual increases in student debt. This change only covers a fraction of Brown st…

700->1400->2100->etc. 16 years in, which is how far Princeton is in, it's $11,200
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