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Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

theguardian.com

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Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#31

Post by thriftwy »

dtech wrote: post #7
humanrebar wrote: post #4

> By “convenient” they mean anonymous people on minimum wage clean up after you. Hey, let's not stigmatize the upper middle class actually hiring people to do worthwhile work. That's how jobs, small businesses, and economic growth happen. > As was quickly pointed out by numerous people this is basically a “bus”. Just, you know, without the poor people. Likewise, this is a good idea. People sharing rides in smaller bu…

> Public bus systems should really be exploring a smaller vehicle model more I asked someone from my local bus service once. Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service, as the only major saving was fuel cost and the extra services don't provide enough revenue to offset the employee cost (otherwise they could service it with the large normal busses). So basically this becomes viable…

> Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service

There's a huge number of dollar van systems all around the world, they're usually profitable, sometimes profitable enough to wage wars against competitors.

Public buses: Big, amenities, lose public money. Private minibuses: Small, rough, earn profit.

Moreover, they can totally turn the table with regards of quality of life. Village where my granma lived had a bus from the city maybe once per for hours. Now it has some bus still, but also a minibus every 15 minutes! That's a game changer.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#32

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rayiner wrote: post #15
humanrebar wrote: post #4

> By “convenient” they mean anonymous people on minimum wage clean up after you. Hey, let's not stigmatize the upper middle class actually hiring people to do worthwhile work. That's how jobs, small businesses, and economic growth happen. > As was quickly pointed out by numerous people this is basically a “bus”. Just, you know, without the poor people. Likewise, this is a good idea. People sharing rides in smaller bu…

> Hey, let's not stigmatize the upper middle class actually hiring people to do worthwhile work. That's how jobs, small businesses, and economic growth happen. It should be at least a little stigmatized. Having upper middle class people be able to afford lots of labor intensive services is a sign of an unhealthy society with too large an income gap.

In a developing economy like China or India, it does provide a good opportunity to transfer wealth from rich urban dwellers to poor rural residents. It isn’t clear how development could happen otherwise if some weren’t allowed to get rich first, and then pull up the lower classes.

As a developed economy, much fewer people can afford house keepers in the USA. Our cleaning tech is better to compensate.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#33

Post by Cthulhu_ »

chrisseaton wrote: post #8

I think the author is being deliberately uncharitable. I think what these co-living spaces are proposing is more similar to an officers' mess, if people here have experienced that, than roommates, in that it's sort of like a private permanent hotel with private rooms, dining areas, kitchens, libraries, and staff waiting on you. As a young person it's a really fantastic way to live, very efficient, and it fosters comm…

I do think it has some merit; the comparison to student housing is made, but IIRC there's nothing like that once you've graduated - you're almost forced to get a house of your own, rental or bought. I can imagine for a lot of people it's not actually an improvement, especially if you can't afford a house right after you've finished school.

I know where I live, in NL, there's a few scenarios. One, some people just remain students for ten years until their early 30's, living in student houses like this for that whole time. At least this used to be the case until the government cracked down on scholarships. I don't know if this type appears in the US, I can imagine with university being a lot more expensive year over year it's not that bad.

Another thing, and this goes for me, is that if you're out of school, especially in the city area, it's very hard to find a house. There's social rental which is the affordable rental apartments, but there's a 10+ year waiting list for that - that is, your parents would have had to sign you up for it when you were still a kid. If that's even possible. Then there's the free market, which is more like student houses and such. I've had to do the latter for... I think 8 years, at the end of my education and the first seven or so years of my career until I earned enough to be able to buy a house. (that + other factors, mind you; I think I could've bought a cheap apartment much earlier if I wanted to. Wasn't sure about buying yet 5-6 years ago).

erm, anyway. I think there's some merit to this, give the benefits of shared living but add the comforts of adulthood and working for a living (maintained shared spaces, privacy, etc) and there might be something there, especially in areas where housing is expensive and/or space is limited and/or people don't live in the same spot for more than two years.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#34

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cm2187 wrote: post #20
jabretti wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serviced apartments typically aren't "permanent", though, they're rented by the night like a hotel rather than on a longer-term basis, so they cost a lot more, to compensate for the high vacancy rate.

There are also permanent serviced apartments. An example that comes to my mind in the UK are the apartments in the Shard, which are serviced by the Shangri La but I believe were sold, not rented.

There is also Ascott in Asia, which are typically collected and comanaged with 5 star hotels. I had a friend who lived in something like this full time when I was living in Beijing.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#35

Post by lotsofpulp »

thriftwy wrote: post #31
dtech wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public bus systems should really be exploring a smaller vehicle model more I asked someone from my local bus service once. Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service, as the only major saving was fuel cost and the extra services don't provide enough revenue to offset the employee cost (otherwise they could service it with the large normal busses). So basically this becomes viable…

> Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service There's a huge number of dollar van systems all around the world, they're usually profitable, sometimes profitable enough to wage wars against competitors. Public buses: Big, amenities, lose public money. Private minibuses: Small, rough, earn profit. Moreover, they can totally turn the table with regards of quality of life. Village where…

Is there anywhere to compare the wages, credentialing, and insurance of those drivers to those of a city's bus system?

It's easy to earn a profit when you don't pay taxes or have to worry about liability insurance.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#36

Post by dullgiulio »

cm2187 wrote: post #21
chrisseaton wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No a mess is not really like serviced apartments. It's more like one big communal house. Most of the areas except bedrooms and bathrooms are communal and you would normally eat together with staff waiting on. It isn't a new idea but most techies probably have not experienced that kind of lifestyle, so will be new to them. I'd love to live in a living space like a mess if I wasn't married. I've always thought that a m…

True, though modern luxury apartment blocks increasingly have communal areas (swimming pool, gym, cinema, lounge).

They are probably trying to bring the "gated community" concept to the apartment block level.

Gated communities are a very bad sign; outside the US, they are usually found in places where income is very unequal, crime is high, taxes low and public services of very bad quality or inexistent.

It doesn't have to be like this. In fact, a more balanced society improves the lifestyle of everyone, including those who make more (and end up paying more taxes).

Before I'm asked "citation needed", try and imagine which societies I am thinking of.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#37

Post by bigboy678 »

i think one problem with buses are the routes are absolutely terrible. in my morning commute i see a bus stop 3 times within 6 blocks, i kid you not. if you have to go from the end of 1 bus route to another it would easily take you over an hour. honestly remove some bus stops and make people walk anb extra block. i feel the same way about our metro system too.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#38

Post by technotony »

dtech wrote: post #7
humanrebar wrote: post #4

> By “convenient” they mean anonymous people on minimum wage clean up after you. Hey, let's not stigmatize the upper middle class actually hiring people to do worthwhile work. That's how jobs, small businesses, and economic growth happen. > As was quickly pointed out by numerous people this is basically a “bus”. Just, you know, without the poor people. Likewise, this is a good idea. People sharing rides in smaller bu…

> Public bus systems should really be exploring a smaller vehicle model more I asked someone from my local bus service once. Their answer was that it's not economically viable for the public bus service, as the only major saving was fuel cost and the extra services don't provide enough revenue to offset the employee cost (otherwise they could service it with the large normal busses). So basically this becomes viable…

> So basically this becomes viable with increased ticket prices or self-driving busses. The technology isn't quite there yet for the latter

No, but it will get there so proving the business model/market demand now then buying the tech when it's ready might be worth a vc investing in.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#39

Post by barry-cotter »

chrisseaton wrote: post #8

I think the author is being deliberately uncharitable. I think what these co-living spaces are proposing is more similar to an officers' mess, if people here have experienced that, than roommates, in that it's sort of like a private permanent hotel with private rooms, dining areas, kitchens, libraries, and staff waiting on you. As a young person it's a really fantastic way to live, very efficient, and it fosters comm…

These have existed before in the USA and been zoned out of existence. You may have heard of SRO hotels, single room occupancy? Otherwise known as flophouses. Basically middle class people look at how poor people live, go “I would never want to live like that.” and make it illegal. Also see tiny houses as a solution to homelessness. The problem is zoning.

The problem is zoning.

The problem is democracy.

The problem is people.

Re: Silicon Valley thinks it invented roommates. They call it 'co-living'

#40

Post by falcolas »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #32
rayiner wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hey, let's not stigmatize the upper middle class actually hiring people to do worthwhile work. That's how jobs, small businesses, and economic growth happen. It should be at least a little stigmatized. Having upper middle class people be able to afford lots of labor intensive services is a sign of an unhealthy society with too large an income gap.

In a developing economy like China or India, it does provide a good opportunity to transfer wealth from rich urban dwellers to poor rural residents. It isn’t clear how development could happen otherwise if some weren’t allowed to get rich first, and then pull up the lower classes. As a developed economy, much fewer people can afford house keepers in the USA. Our cleaning tech is better to compensate.

Minimum wage doesn’t pull anybody up. It is just barely enough to let them survive.
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