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Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

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Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#31

Post by nas »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #28

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't care for everything-is-unicode-by-default. You can take my Python 2 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

I don't think anyone is going to pry it from you. If you want to keep using 2.7, go ahead. It's open source so you can even hire someone to keep maintaining it for you.

However, be aware that the vast majority of the people maintaining Python have moved on to 3.x. 2.7.x continues to be maintained because the team believes in giving people a stable platform and a long maintenance window. Long does not mean forever though and most of the people back-porting fixes to 2.7.x will stop by 2020.

So, you should have a plan for that. May give 3.x a spin and see how it works for you. I feel like 3.x adoption is speeding up because people have tried porting their code and decided that "yes, 3.x is better".

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#33

Post by projectramo »

wybiral wrote: post #16
fredley wrote: post #10

Good. The glacial migration from Python 2 to 3 is one of the worst things about an otherwise fantastic ecosystem. The tide is turning though, with Django having already dropped support for 2, and now with Numpy too hopefully Python 2 can be properly consigned to the history books. For people wondering why it's been like this for almost a decade(!) since Python 3.0 was released: Python 3.0 was actually terrible. It la…

Yeah, for the longest time everyone kept using library support as an excuse for sticking with 2. But at this point I think it's the exception that a decent Python library doesn't support 3, rather than the rule. The only one that comes to mind for me is fabric, to be honest.

Yes, but during the long migration, it was no mere excuse.

Almost every time I tried to use a library, it was 2.7 only.

That situation has only changed recently, and with it people have moved on to 3. (Which sort of underscores that the library support was the main issue).

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#34

Post by jihadjihad »

wybiral wrote: post #16
fredley wrote: post #10

Good. The glacial migration from Python 2 to 3 is one of the worst things about an otherwise fantastic ecosystem. The tide is turning though, with Django having already dropped support for 2, and now with Numpy too hopefully Python 2 can be properly consigned to the history books. For people wondering why it's been like this for almost a decade(!) since Python 3.0 was released: Python 3.0 was actually terrible. It la…

Yeah, for the longest time everyone kept using library support as an excuse for sticking with 2. But at this point I think it's the exception that a decent Python library doesn't support 3, rather than the rule. The only one that comes to mind for me is fabric, to be honest.

> The only one that comes to mind for me is fabric

Speaking of Fabric, does anyone know of any Python 3 projects similar to it? I've been using Fabric3 since the switch but it's not a 1:1 port. I'd consider dropping it in favor of something better if it exists.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#35

Post by hetman »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #28

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't care for everything-is-unicode-by-default. You can take my Python 2 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

It replaces one set of quirky hacks for a different set, just in different parts of your code. So in a way it's no worse.

I have to say I was sceptical of Ruby 1.9's new approach to Unicode thinking Python 3.0's approach looked much cleaner. It does on paper. In practice though, I have to admit I get where Ruby was going with it all now.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#36

Post by projectramo »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #29
fredley wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Define 'supported'? Many banks are still writing COBOL.

By that logic any language can be supported by never upgrading the system. Support implies some kind of active support from the creators / maintainers of the language, not active use by people.

Exactly.

Otherwise I could argue Commodore still "supports" the Commodore basic in a Commodore 64.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#37

Post by derefr »

j605 wrote: post #23
fredley wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And of the 13 not migrated, 9 are Mozilla packages, so they're probably just waiting to write them all in Rust...

Those are internal tools at best so it won't matter that much for migration.

Why are internal tools showing up in the top 200 PyPI package list?

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#38

Post by Something1234 »

hetman wrote: post #35
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #28

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't care for everything-is-unicode-by-default. You can take my Python 2 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

It replaces one set of quirky hacks for a different set, just in different parts of your code. So in a way it's no worse. I have to say I was sceptical of Ruby 1.9's new approach to Unicode thinking Python 3.0's approach looked much cleaner. It does on paper. In practice though, I have to admit I get where Ruby was going with it all now.

Whats the difference between the approaches?

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#39

Post by hyperbovine »

hetman wrote: post #35
bjt2n3904 wrote: post #28

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't care for everything-is-unicode-by-default. You can take my Python 2 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

It replaces one set of quirky hacks for a different set, just in different parts of your code. So in a way it's no worse. I have to say I was sceptical of Ruby 1.9's new approach to Unicode thinking Python 3.0's approach looked much cleaner. It does on paper. In practice though, I have to admit I get where Ruby was going with it all now.

I wonder if this has anything to do with Matz being Japanese. I do my best to avoid Unicode at all costs because as a native English speaker ASCII was working out great for me.

Re: Numpy: Plan for dropping Python 2.7 support

#40

Post by derefr »

bjt2n3904 wrote: post #28

I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't care for everything-is-unicode-by-default. You can take my Python 2 when you pry it from my cold dead hands.

You know the phrase, "you don't have to go home, but you can't stay here"?

You don't have to move to Python 3, but Python 2 is gonna be EOLed. If you don't agree with Python 3's stances on things, it might be time to find another language entirely.

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