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Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

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Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#31

Post by 1337biz »

on_and_off wrote: post #18
downandout wrote: post #11

This may get downvotes, but the speed with which careers are being destroyed based on mere allegations of sexual misconduct these days is frightening. While the allegations in this case may or may not be true, it is actually possible for a woman to make a false allegation of sexual misconduct. There are myriad reasons that someone would make make such a false allegation against a powerful VC. Yet in today’s environme…

It is concerning. I am not even sure what the attitude should be. By default I would say that when there are serious allegations we should wait until a trial has been conducted. But there are also cases emerging of dozen of people finally speaking out about an individual, where some kind of opportunistic fabrication seems very unlikely. How should we balance the 2 ?

I don't see how why this topic has become all of the sudden a crime where journalists are the judges and not a court of law. It saddens me that society has become so blood hungry again that there are almost seasonal public lynchigs going on. It hurts also the crime itself. In a few weeks nobody is going to care about it anymore as the next whitch is going to be hunted through the village.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#32

Post by opportune »

downandout wrote: post #28
opportune wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The crux of the problem is how to set up a system where people feel comfortable coming forward without creating one that incentivizes false accusations. This is exacerbated by the externalities surrounding sexual misconduct: sometimes it's one word against another, sometimes the evidence isn't that strong, and many victims are so impacted by the misconduct/abuse that they may not want to relive the experience through…

This woman likely does not have enough money to compensate him for the actual damages that would be awarded at trial should he prevail, let alone any punitive damages. Lost potential earnings etc. would likely be in the billions in this case. For all intents and purposes, the lawsuit and any money he did recover would be meaningless except perhaps as a personal vindication. His career ended when she made the accusati…

Well, yes, which is exactly my point. A victim is heavily discentivized from coming forward with an accusation if there's a chance they will be financially ruined from it, even if it's true. This means that wealthy and powerful people with great lawyers are insulated from all but the most clear-cut cases, which is definitely not a desirable system.

There's also the fact that wealthy people can settle a sexual misconduct case even if they did commit it. You shouldn't be able to pay someone $900k to make an accusation go away and then face no criminal repercussions. Even if the victim is ok with that, the perpetrator is still free to harm other victims.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#33

Post by pecanpie »

Long time reader, tentative poster, upvote or downvote as necessary…

Back in the days of orkut.com, I do remember Jurvetson making what seemed to me like a huge effort to interact with pretty young women, especially from Estonia. I remember him having a few hundred friends on that service — more than most people there had — a list which included a very large population of pretty, young, single Estonian women.

Keep in mind that I never saw any behavior of his on orkut.com that I would deem harassment, but his social activity there did seem curious to me, considering his married, busy professional status. It was kind of similar to what I saw Marc Canter (of Macromedia fame I guess?) doing there, but again, for neither guy did I witness, or hear, of any harassment going on. it just seemed that what they were doing was merely using their professional status to flirt.

At the time, I figured that their flirting, and their collecting of young female friends, was harmless, and didn't indicate anything untoward going on. Especially since none of my female friends and acquaintances in these guys’ sights intimated to me that anything weird or unwelcome was happening. But now, I'm not so sure, considering how allegations, like the one in the featured article, are bubbling up.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#34

Post by auganov »

downandout wrote: post #11

This may get downvotes, but the speed with which careers are being destroyed based on mere allegations of sexual misconduct these days is frightening. While the allegations in this case may or may not be true, it is actually possible for a woman to make a false allegation of sexual misconduct. There are myriad reasons that someone would make make such a false allegation against a powerful VC. Yet in today’s environme…

In most of these rapid takedown cases, the accused doesn't contest the allegations (or only sort of does). Easy to overestimate how often this happens.

And the destruction is mutual for the most part. The moment the accusation is made, the accuser will experience some stigma too.

As sad as it may be, hardly frightening.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#35

Post by chaostheory »

This is what I love about America: we have periodic, bloodless revolutions that can be initiated and carried out by anyone. The social order keeps changing without the chaos, destruction, and waste of violent upheavals or coups. Isn't this what both Marx and Mao have always wanted? What they both didn't realize was that you need a functioning democracy with freedom of speech (and the Internet) to achieve it.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#37

Post by ben_jones »

Danihan wrote: post #12
AlexandrB wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even so, that's not an "industrywide evaluation" but a single firm acting responsibly. If there is a concerted push in tech to deal with sexual harassment and/or sexism I'd love to know about it.

Is every company having a HR department not enough?

I had this conversation the other day. HR exists to protect the firm, if that involves sweeping things under the rug, disparaging victims, or enabling illegal behavior by high performers, they will, and historically have, done it.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#38

Post by dragonwriter »

1337biz wrote: post #31
on_and_off wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is concerning. I am not even sure what the attitude should be. By default I would say that when there are serious allegations we should wait until a trial has been conducted. But there are also cases emerging of dozen of people finally speaking out about an individual, where some kind of opportunistic fabrication seems very unlikely. How should we balance the 2 ?

I don't see how why this topic has become all of the sudden a crime where journalists are the judges and not a court of law. It saddens me that society has become so blood hungry again that there are almost seasonal public lynchigs going on. It hurts also the crime itself. In a few weeks nobody is going to care about it anymore as the next whitch is going to be hunted through the village.

> I don't see how why this topic has become all of the sudden a crime where journalists are the judges and not a court of law

It hasn't. It still is a crime where criminal courts of law are the applicable courts.

It's also a tort where civil courts of law are the applicable court.

It's also a moral and PR issue where individuals in deciding their own personal business are the applicable decision-makers.

Journalists are relaying the information on which people make decisions on both responsibility and consequences, but they aren't making the decisions.

> It saddens me that society has become so blood hungry again that there are almost seasonal public lynchigs going on.

No one is getting lynched.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#39

Post by downandout »

CJefferson wrote: post #15
downandout wrote: post #11

This may get downvotes, but the speed with which careers are being destroyed based on mere allegations of sexual misconduct these days is frightening. While the allegations in this case may or may not be true, it is actually possible for a woman to make a false allegation of sexual misconduct. There are myriad reasons that someone would make make such a false allegation against a powerful VC. Yet in today’s environme…

First of all, if you have been on ycombinator for any length of time, you knew this would end up top reply, not downvoted. Secondly, will this is wrong, the main alternative seems to be years of unreported abuse. The men (and it is mostly men) have had years to take these kinds of accusations seriously, and work towards an environment where should accusations could be handled fairly. They have failed at that goal. Wh…

You’re wrong, the post is currently at -2 points and falling. My faith in the lynch mob mentality of today’s environment is well placed. Any hint that even one of these accusations may be false or overblown will be met with immediate negative reactions, despite the fact that little is publicly known about this case other than the consequences for Mr. Jurveston.

Re: Steve Jurvetson is out at his own VC firm after allegations of sexual harassment

#40

Post by s73ver_ »

hkmurakami wrote: post #27

Following these very visible and high profile falls from grace, in politics, media and entertainment, and high tech, there must be some legitimate concerns that in the near future the Billy Graham rule [1] (or lately called the Graham-Pence rule) will find more followers than before. Many men in power will instinctually and subconsciously cut out women from their professional lives more than before, to the detriment…

I think we then need to cut those people out. If you're not professional enough to be able to meet with anyone one-on-one, and not do anything, then you don't deserve a position in leadership.
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