Live data from Hacker News

Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

indiehackers.com

31–40 of 56 posts

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#31
post #30
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we were lucky that our relationship with Spektrum wasn’t creditor > debtor. It was more of an intimate partnership. After all, both companies shared almost all the same owners.

Yeah I saw that. To me, assuming Spektrum retained no ownership in the final company, it sounds like the people in that "almost" were basically swindled of a bit of resources, basically ending up as angels without their knowledge.

It's hard to tell. Going by that tangent take the angel money is not an advice most can act upon and not something to write home about, unless I missed the part where they deliberately turned down venture capital.

edit: I'm talking about taking free money, not setting up a successful business. That is hard and they succeeded in it.

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why on earth would you use VB.Net for something new?

I didn’t know it was even a thing; haven’t heard anything about it in around ten years.

Visual Basic .NET is not much like the Visual Basic of 10 years ago.

As far as I can tell, Visual Basic .NET is now essentially as powerful as C# or any other Microsoft language on Windows.

Supposedly C# has lambda expressions. Okay. If I need those, maybe I'll write some C#. But have VB.NET call or be called by C# is relatively easy. So, I could have a function in C# called by my main code in VB.NET.

I wrote enough C to understand it fairly well, at least at the level in K&R. I've looked at some C# code, and it seems to read easily enough. Maybe I could be writing C# in a few days. If I want to convert to C#, I understand that there is a translator to do that for me.

I do like the more traditional syntax of VB.NET instead of the deliberately "idiosyncratic" syntax of C borrowed by C#. So, I see no biggie reason not to use the syntax I prefer in VB.NET.

I learned programming long before C++ or even C. I skipped C++ -- never wrote a line of it. My first code with objects was essentially VB.NET. The objects are easy enough, close enough to what I did with structures in PL/I. Now with .NET, VB.NET, and C#, there's reduced reason to write C++ on Windows. There are plenty of serious criticisms of C++ for important production software. Yup, it's possible to write good code for big projects in C++, but just from memory management I'll let VB.NET handle that for me.

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#33
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t know it was even a thing; haven’t heard anything about it in around ten years.

Visual Basic .NET is not much like the Visual Basic of 10 years ago. As far as I can tell, Visual Basic .NET is now essentially as powerful as C# or any other Microsoft language on Windows. Supposedly C# has lambda expressions. Okay. If I need those, maybe I'll write some C#. But have VB.NET call or be called by C# is relatively easy. So, I could have a function in C# called by my main code in VB.NET. I wrote enough…

Good luck with your project! This was a fun read. Don't let the haters keep you down, just remember Zuckerberg shipped Facebook in PHP.

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#34
post #12
post #9

So it is 4 guys not 3 1/2 just because you don't work full time doesnt me youre 1/2 a person?

Right, but then why would you click on that headline?

I clicked to figure out why a person was described as a half person but I didn't spend much time on the page and didn't figure it out, do you want to know what I ate for lunch too?

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#35
post #2

My Odd Startup! One guy, no VC, patience, problem identified, for solution, crucial secret sauce found and scalable, production quality code written, alpha test in progress, meager burn rate, no users or revenue yet. Problem? One where the first good solution should be a "must have" for nearly everyone on the Internet. Solution? An excellent solution now with a high technological barrier to entry and later with some…

If it was your intention to cause me a couple of sleepless nights consider your mission accomplished.

how so? just from his posts?

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#36
post #8

Sure, there are now dozens of e-commerce solutions similar to Snipcart. Yet there is 0 business like ours. It sounds like Snipcart are doing something very similar to Moltin ( https://moltin.com ), which is a YC company.

My implementation of this was rejected in 2013.

I should have put more work into my YC app + video!

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#37
post #29
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your work product has a real barrier to entry and strong value like you say, I wish you'd stop coming here to 1) play coy / not describe the product, 2) flog dissatisfaction with VC behavior, 3) throw out outrageous $1T numbers, and finally 4) rile people up with arguments about VB.NET. Look, it's nice that you got some use out of Microsoft's frankly very irritating old developer tools. But all we're doing here is…

> 1) play coy / not describe the product, "Play coy" has nothing to do with it. Holding off the details of the announcement until my Web site is ready to go live and please lots of people is important and the reason for not saying more now. > 2) flog dissatisfaction with VC behavior One lesson can learn about VC behavior from my posts is that so far, from all I've written that you don't like, no VC likes to hear at a…

> If I am successful, then I will have a long track record here on HN saying to the VCs "I told you so." or "You ignored me until I had revenue enough to ignore you."

Okay, if an I-told-you-so is your long game then fine. But here's the problem: all these words are absolutely meaningless outside your private context. From our perspective it is utterly indistinguishable from a crackpot rant. You have this major axe to grind with VCs, I don't judge that (have plenty of sour grapes myself), but what are you to gain from publishing an inscrutable diatribe? Ever hear the expression "living well is the best revenge?" It sure as hell is better than confirming their decision not to invest in you by making yourself look crazy.

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#39
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) play coy / not describe the product, "Play coy" has nothing to do with it. Holding off the details of the announcement until my Web site is ready to go live and please lots of people is important and the reason for not saying more now. > 2) flog dissatisfaction with VC behavior One lesson can learn about VC behavior from my posts is that so far, from all I've written that you don't like, no VC likes to hear at a…

> If I am successful, then I will have a long track record here on HN saying to the VCs "I told you so." or "You ignored me until I had revenue enough to ignore you." Okay, if an I-told-you-so is your long game then fine. But here's the problem: all these words are absolutely meaningless outside your private context. From our perspective it is utterly indistinguishable from a crackpot rant. You have this major axe to…

You are angry about something. You are angry with me about something, but you have no reason to be.

At

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15624067

is the thread

> Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

and I responded with

> My Odd Startup!

> One guy, no VC, patience, problem identified, for solution, crucial secret sauce found and scalable, production quality code written, alpha test in progress, meager burn rate, no users or revenue yet.

that is, I responded in kind, and you got angry.

So, you post a list of unjustified, pejorative remarks about my behavior:

> play coy

> flog dissatisfaction

> throw out outrageous

> rile people up

Then you posted

> Microsoft's frankly very irritating old developer tools.

That's uninformed: You must have in mind Microsoft's old Visual Basic, not Visual Basic .NET.

Look, in case it is not fully clear yet, at their Web sites US information technology VCs, apparently nearly all of them, are seriously, deliberately, and harmfully deceiving entrepreneurs. Hacker News readers should be aware of this fact.

The situation is not particular to me but to nearly every entrepreneur in the world who visits the Web sites.

Here is their deception: They claim to fund information technology entrepreneurs and list their criteria. But their lists are deliberately deceptive because they refuse to list the most important parts of their criteria. Here are five items, apparently important to crucial, of their criteria they refuse to list:

(1) Likely and apparently, the most important item of their criteria is that the entrepreneur's project must have traction or revenue or earnings significant and growing rapidly.

(2) Likely and apparently, one item of their criteria is that they regard any contact directly by an entrepreneur as "from over the transom" (there is some scatological symbolism here) and refuse to consider it.

(3) Likely and apparently, they nearly always insist on a "team" of several persons and will automatically reject a sole founder.

(4) They want an entrepreneur to have "references". But having references from CEOs of Fortune 500 companies and Presidents of some of the world's best research universities don't count.

(5) They claim to want highly qualified entrepreneurs, but the qualifications they want would not help a person get admitted to a STEM field Ph.D. program, be hired for a tenure track position in a STEM field at a research university, etc. And peer reviewed published papers in a STEM field and relevant to the entrepreneur's company don't count, either.

Of these five, likely the most important is the first one, traction.

E.g., I posted the statement from venture firm USV:

> If you’re a founder or potential founder building something transformational, I’m so eager to meet you. I’m on a new adventure and I’m ready to dive into yours, too. You can reach me at Rebecca@USV.com.

So, here she says "potential founder" implying that she wants to hear from persons, including single persons and not necessarily a team, who are not yet founders. So, they won't yet have traction, etc.

She says "building" and not "have built". So she is considering work in progress.

Then she says:

"I’m so eager to meet you." I can't believe that.

So, I wrote her. Never heard back anything.

Her statement is just an example of the theme: VCs won't say what their real criteria are, and this is clearly both deceptive and deliberate.

Entrepreneurs are being hurt because they take the VC bait and invest time and effort in responding for no good reason.

Again, here is how this VC deliberate deception hurts entrepreneurs:

VCs don't want to say this, but entrepreneurs need to know it or do what I did -- jerk the chains of nearly every VC on both US coasts with pitches of every style all for no good reason.

Again, that VCs want traction is, thus, a fairly solid conclusion and really important for entrepreneurs to know about VCs.

> Okay, if an I-told-you-so is your long game then fine.

No it's not my "long game". It's just a small side issue and a way maybe eventually to make a point that should help entrepreneurs: If I am successful, then I will be able to claim that I long tried to get VCs interested and they never were. So, the lesson for entrepreneurs is, VC don't know how to pick good projects, and entrepreneurs should invest little or no time and effort in contacting VCs.

Am I angry with VCs for their deliberate and harmful deception? Yes. But I'm not as angry as you are with what I posted that harmed you not at all.

You continued with your pejorative and just plain wrong remarks:

> crackpot rant

> inscrutable diatribe

> You have this major axe to grind with VCs, I don't judge that (have plenty of sour grapes myself), but what are you to gain from publishing an inscrutable diatribe?

As I explained, I am in line to help other entrepreneurs.

> look crazy.

Not at all. The VCs are being deliberately deceptive and harmful, and I am warning entrepreneurs.

For your

> But here's the problem: all these words are absolutely meaningless outside your private context.

It's not my "private context" at all. What is on the VC Web sites is deliberately deceptive and harmful bait to nearly all the entrepreneurs and not just to me. What the VCs are doing is not about me; I'm just one example, but what the VCs are doing is quite general.

Clearly you didn't know the information about VCs I provided. So, I was doing you, along with all Hacker News readers, a favor. Your response was to become angry with what I wrote and attack me personally.

Your attacking what I posted looks "crazy".

My view is that until the VCs improve their ability to evaluate projects and the LPs let such VCs use their judgment, information technology VC is on the way out of business. E.g., long on average their ROI has not been good. And the world of information technology startups has changed so much that the old VC and LP approaches will no longer work.

In business, one of the most important decisions a founder makes is whom else to work with. Well, then, no good information technology entrepreneurs should want to report to a BoD of VCs -- they just don't have the "right stuff".

Re: Our Odd Startup: 3½ Guys, No VC, Profitability, and Patience

#40
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visual Basic .NET is not much like the Visual Basic of 10 years ago. As far as I can tell, Visual Basic .NET is now essentially as powerful as C# or any other Microsoft language on Windows. Supposedly C# has lambda expressions. Okay. If I need those, maybe I'll write some C#. But have VB.NET call or be called by C# is relatively easy. So, I could have a function in C# called by my main code in VB.NET. I wrote enough…

Good luck with your project! This was a fun read. Don't let the haters keep you down, just remember Zuckerberg shipped Facebook in PHP.

Yes, supposedly the first version of Google was something equally weak!

Apparently since then Google has written a huge volume of some really good code. Good for Google.

Post reply on HN