Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed • Hacker News Board

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#31

Post by fhood » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:36 PM UTC

aptwebapps wrote: post #13

planteen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah they exist. There are ceramic ones and I have also seen plastic ones. I've seen other fun specialized types of screwdrivers in my career: Screwdrivers with conductive plastic in the handle, to deal with ESD requirements in the spacecraft industry. Alternatively, take a normal plastic screwdriver handle and wrap it in copper tape. Beryllium screwdrivers (non-ferrous) for use around MRI machine bores thanks to…

And steel sheathed with plastic. The end still conducts, but that's not usually a problem.

At a company I used to work for we used to get a set of these every time we made a bulk order. But the company was just four people and we made those orders 3 or 4 times a year, so eventually we were basically drowning in very well insulated hand tools.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#32

Post by nawgszy » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #17

rrggrr wrote: post #8

This is why nuclear non-proliferation is important. Its difficult enough for a super power to safely store and control its WMD. Each new nuclear state magnifies the risks, and all the more so because they lack the after action experience that a half century of mishaps delivers.

Arms reduction is even more important. I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. A weapon detonating by accident is terrible. Thousands of weapons on hair-trigger alert is civilization-ending. It's absolutely insane that we're conditioned to believe that this is not only normal - but the best possible state of affairs.

I don't really think that we believe either of those things; it seems a lot has been written on how MAD is a rather poor sentiment to rest our future upon.

But all that aside, 20 countries each having 50 warheads seems a lot likelier to end up with 20 countries each having thousands of warheads than 2 countries having thousands of warheads and everyone else none does, no?

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#33

Post by clarkmoody » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:38 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #17

rrggrr wrote: post #8

This is why nuclear non-proliferation is important. Its difficult enough for a super power to safely store and control its WMD. Each new nuclear state magnifies the risks, and all the more so because they lack the after action experience that a half century of mishaps delivers.

Arms reduction is even more important. I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. A weapon detonating by accident is terrible. Thousands of weapons on hair-trigger alert is civilization-ending. It's absolutely insane that we're conditioned to believe that this is not only normal - but the best possible state of affairs.

Wouldn't you rather live in a world where all governments had zero nuclear weapons each?

A nuclear bomb serves no other purpose than killing huge numbers of civilians in a short period of time. Shouldn't we strive for a world where nobody has that capability? Not to mention that in the United States, one man has unilateral and final authority to launch a nuclear first strike.

Edit: countries -> governments

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#34

Post by jtmarmon » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

clarkmoody wrote: post #33

vkou wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arms reduction is even more important. I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. A weapon detonating by accident is terrible. Thousands of weapons on hair-trigger alert is civilization-ending. It's absolutely insane that we're conditioned to believe that this is not only normal - but the best possible state of affairs.

Wouldn't you rather live in a world where all governments had zero nuclear weapons each? A nuclear bomb serves no other purpose than killing huge numbers of civilians in a short period of time. Shouldn't we strive for a world where nobody has that capability? Not to mention that in the United States, one man has unilateral and final authority to launch a nuclear first strike. Edit: countries -> governments

Yes, I would. Please sign me up when you figure out how to do this

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#35

Post by retSava » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:42 PM UTC

gozur88 wrote: post #16

_Microft wrote: post #4

There was a frightening number of close calls over the course of decades on the american side alone. One can just assume what must have happened on the sites of other nuclear powers that just doesn't get reported. You can find a timeline of these almost accidents here: https://futureoflife.org/background/nuclear-close-calls-a-ti... It's certainly time to reduce the number of warheads from a nuclear-winter-guaranteein…

The incident in the article isn't a "close call". There was never any danger the warhead would go off.

There have been many accidents, of a kind where even one is one too many. Given the potential damage, I certainly don't feel comfortable with your assessment that there wasn't any danger it would go off.

Likely these things happen more often than is publicly known, yet we've not (yet) seen a full-on swiss cheese kind of accident.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#36

Post by raquo » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:43 PM UTC

notheguyouthink wrote: post #23

vkou wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arms reduction is even more important. I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. A weapon detonating by accident is terrible. Thousands of weapons on hair-trigger alert is civilization-ending. It's absolutely insane that we're conditioned to believe that this is not only normal - but the best possible state of affairs.

What's the realistic approach to this though? I don't know anything about this area, but to me it seems like hoping for 20 countries having 50 each would be effectively the same as hoping for 20 countries having 0 each. That is to say, we're in the arms race because each country did have N each. But then one country had N+1, and so the others raced for N+2, and so on. If we hoped for 50 each, wouldn't it drop back to…

You can't just un-invent nukes. They're there, they provide nuclear deterrence. They will continue to exist no matter how many countries "agree" to stop using them. Regardless of whether you have them, there is always a chance that someone might still keep the nukes in secret despite what they agreed to. No one would want such a risk if they have an option to avoid it.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#37

Post by joshlegs » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:45 PM UTC

rrggrr wrote: post #8

This is why nuclear non-proliferation is important. Its difficult enough for a super power to safely store and control its WMD. Each new nuclear state magnifies the risks, and all the more so because they lack the after action experience that a half century of mishaps delivers.

I don't disagree that nuclear non-proliferation is important. But I think the arguments you're using are kind of a bit of false logic. Essentially your argument boils down to "this thing X is hard to do safely. Therefore only people who have done X should do it [because they've failed a lot of times before]." And I don't think that is a legitimate argument for any topic, really.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#38

Post by bjt2n3904 » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:46 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #20

>> without hitting the missile and causing an explosion. >> caused a short circuit that resulted in an explosion. >> Luckily, the cone did not do enough damage to the missile to cause the missile to explode. To clarify: There was absolutely no chance at any point of a nuclear explosion. The article suggests that some big explosion was on the edge of possibility which, given the context, one might think would be a nuc…

Not an aerospace engineer or anything. I think the fear was that the rocket may tip over and collapse under its own weight. I wouldn't be too surprised if that could trigger an ignition of the rocket fuel at the very least, risking nuclear contamination.

While the physics package surely has numerous safeties, I'd be concerned that the safeties would be damaged in a way that no one could really predict after falling 80 feet. They served their purpose well, but you can bet all the engineers were in the lab for the next 72 hours straight looking for various failure modes.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#39

Post by dsfyu404ed » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:47 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #9

planteen wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yeah they exist. There are ceramic ones and I have also seen plastic ones. I've seen other fun specialized types of screwdrivers in my career: Screwdrivers with conductive plastic in the handle, to deal with ESD requirements in the spacecraft industry. Alternatively, take a normal plastic screwdriver handle and wrap it in copper tape. Beryllium screwdrivers (non-ferrous) for use around MRI machine bores thanks to…

Wait, isn’t Beryllium toxic? I was under the impression that you don’t want to be around it.

The alloy form used for tools is only hazardous in powdered form

It's fine to machine as long as you're making actual chips (how do you think they make all those tools for the oil industry).

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#40

Post by GCU-Empiricist » Fri, Nov 03, 2017, 5:48 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #2

Hicks said the metal of the screwdriver contacted the positive side of the fuse and also the fuse’s grounded metal holder, causing a short circuit that sent electricity flowing to unintended places. Is there some company out there making non-conductive screwdrivers designed for electrical work? I can understand that maybe the materials science to make strong plastic screwdrivers didn't exist in the 1950s, but surely…

The proper tool is a fuse puller not a screwdriver. These days similar maintenance evolutions are heavily controlled operation performed under reader/worker controls.