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Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

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Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#31

Post by mwcampbell »

otakucode wrote: post #24
monocasa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socrates went into a similar rant on the written word in general. > [Writing] will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will…

John Philip Souza said that recorded music would destroy music, as amateur musicians would be so disheartened by hearing the performances of virtuosos that they would feel any practice would be futile. He also described a person listening to music by themselves as a sort of craven masturbation, using great imagery to have people imagine an emaciated antisocial hollow person curled up next to a phonograph. Next up: VR…

And yet amateur musicians are still practicing and performing. In fact, digital technology is enabling us amateur musicians to practice and get together in new ways. To give just one example (in which I recently participated) that's enabled by the Internet and the ease of repeatedly listening to a recording for reference: https://www.festivaloffriendsevents.com/ Edit: A little more explanation is in order. The event organizer announces a date, a theme, and a set list. We amateur musicians register, each stating our primary part and reserving our songs. Then we practice at home, using the studio recordings for reference. Finally, we get together and just play the songs. WIth no group rehearsal, sometimes it's not perfect, but it's fun.

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#32

Post by combatentropy »

Analog beats digital for some things because it's only 2017. In 2047, our tech will seem as clunky and limited as 1987 looks to us today.

Paper notebooks still beat computers in some ways. Acknowledging this is the key to keep moving forward. Computer screens are rigid, paper is flexible. Computers take Wi-Fi and batteries, paper doesn't. Screens often cut up their space with sticky navbars at the top, disclaimers at the bottom, ads on the right and even in the middle. Computer input is by a rigid and limited keyboard or by a blunt stylus across a slippery screen. Pen on paper provides friction for feedback and control.

Relevant quote from article: " [...] I got out an unused Moleskine notebook. [...] I instantly remembered how much I love writing, just the physical sensation of it and the flexibility of analog tools. [...] It's been a revelation to use a paper notebook for this. Before [...] I would try to take handwritten notes using my iPad, or use Evernote. It was always fussy and frustrating: The wifi wouldn’t connect, for example. Or, the pen would lag on my iPad and the resulting notes were illegible. Or, I was using Evernote and couldn’t easily hand-annotate what I was typing; or using OneNote and experiencing horrific data corruption and sync issues."

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#33

Post by cmsefton »

al2o3cr wrote: post #2

Quick, what goes in the blank? The free access which many young people have to *BLANK* has poisoned the mind and corrupted the morals of many a promising youth; and prevented others from improving their minds in useful knowledge. Parents take care to feed their children with wholesome diet; and yet how unconcerned about the provision for the mind, whether they are furnished with salutary food, or with trash, chaff, o…

It's worth pointing out that Reverend Enos Hitchcock is complaining about the content of the books, not necessarily the medium of books. This is a different kind of moralizing from what the parent is talking about IMO (personally didn't think he was really moralizing, but perhaps that's just me). The parent article seems to be more worried about the medium of the Internet, and the tools being used.

Arguments against the book (e.g. Plato) may have largely been wrong in their day, but it seems short sighted to dismiss any criticisms about the Internet and the tools we use today simply on this basis. We can perhaps be cautious as a result, but that's about it.

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#34

Post by thriftwy »

mi100hael wrote: post #14
thriftwy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that I am unable to navigate the offerings. There used to be forums, there used to be communities, there used to be journals if it comes to that. Now it's nothing of that. It's awful tops from Google Play and even awfuler advertising. I don't understand how one searches for something of value. With TV it's easier because there's at least IMDB.

There are still forums, communities, and journals. They just aren't on the Play store.

You are missing my point. There's no longer an obvious source of information about what information is not a waste of time.

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#35

Post by Stenzel »

Am I the only one having a problem with the term "analog" for everything non-digital? First of all digits can very well be analog to something, e.g. a CD contains digits analogous to sound pressure in a similar way a vinyl records has grooves analogous to sound. Furthermore analog means quite the opposite of the "real thing" - as the name says, it is an analogy of something, not the thing itself. I could just let go and accept the new meaning of analog, but I think the implication of using it this way leads to the false impression that everything digital is just fake and a mere approximation of the-real-thing. As someone who breathes digitally, this makes me a bit sad.

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#36

Post by nerdponx »

mwcampbell wrote: post #28
nathan_long wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it was gauche in 1790 and it hasn't improved with age You imply, but give no evidence, that the writer in 1790 was wrong. Maybe the young people in question were poisoning their minds. The fact that a quote is Old Timey™ doesn't make it wrong. Do you not believe that art and literature have the capacity to change the audience? That is the stated goal of much of it. And if it has that power, wouldn't you be careful…

You might have the causation backward, though. Maybe many teens spend so much time interacting with a screen because they're unhappy, not the other way around. Another top-level comment on this thread gives a possible reason: lack of autonomy.

Computer screens are literally addicting. They actually alter how your brain works in negative ways [0]. If reading has the same effect, it's much smaller and the benefits probably outweigh it.

[0]: http://nypost.com/2016/08/27/its-digital-heroin-how-screens-...

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#37

Post by [deleted] »

mwcampbell wrote: post #17

> Vinyl records, board games, paper notebooks, brick-and-mortar bookstores All of which are less accessible to people with disabilities than their digital counterparts (at least when the digital counterparts are done right). For the latter three, I'm thinking in particular of blind people (and people with severely limited vision like me). True, a lot of computer and mobile games are not accessible to us, but some are…

[deleted]

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#38

Post by learn_more »

Analog is more intimate than digital. When I look at the night sky through my binoculars, the photons of distant stars land upon my retina. They touch me, and I touch them, despite the stars being light years away.

When I look through a digital camera, I see the stars but I know the photons are fraudulent. The information is there, but it's lost something.

With analog, if I could focus better, I'd see more and more detail, until it's inseparable from noise, but it's still in there somewhere

With digital, if I zoom, I know I'll find just a pixel or a cold dead square wave.

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#39

Post by mikestew »

mwcampbell wrote: post #31
otakucode wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

John Philip Souza said that recorded music would destroy music, as amateur musicians would be so disheartened by hearing the performances of virtuosos that they would feel any practice would be futile. He also described a person listening to music by themselves as a sort of craven masturbation, using great imagery to have people imagine an emaciated antisocial hollow person curled up next to a phonograph. Next up: VR…

And yet amateur musicians are still practicing and performing. In fact, digital technology is enabling us amateur musicians to practice and get together in new ways. To give just one example (in which I recently participated) that's enabled by the Internet and the ease of repeatedly listening to a recording for reference: https://www.festivaloffriendsevents.com/ Edit: A little more explanation is in order. The event…

And yet amateur musicians are still practicing and performing.

Of course they, because parent's point was that Sousa was horrendously wrong (obviously). Sousa's problem was a one-dimensional view of musical performance. He was foremost speaking from the POV of a professional performer. Therefore, the goal of all amateur musicians is to become professional performers, but once they hear a pro on a record they'll get discouraged and give up. This, of course, is poppycock. I play a lot of music and have little desire to make money from it. What's that about taking a fun hobby and turning it into work?

Second, I'm sure Sousa viewed recorded music as a threat to his job as a professional live performer, while ignoring that records scale and live performances don't. (Ignore for the moment the part where record companies keep most of the profits.)

WIth no group rehearsal, sometimes it's not perfect, but it's fun.

Heh, try a bluegrass jam. Someone calls a tune that I might, or might not, know. They'll give a key, maybe a chord progression. Hell, if I'm lucky, I might not only know the tune, I might have even played it in the last month so I stand a chance of coming up with a solo (or "break" in bluegrass terms) on the fly when it comes my turn. If I've never even heard the tune, but it's in (say) G with some variation of a I-IV-V progression, I can probably improvise with something that follows the melody. Or not.

Needless to say, I've had some solos/breaks that only were "not perfect", I corkscrewed into the ground with my tail on fire. That's the topsy-turvy world of jamming. But similar to your setup, even when I've completely embarrassed myself, it's always fun.

(As an aside, though it sounds like something I'd not participate in, your setup sounds like a fun way to get to play with people.)

Re: Returning to analog and putting digital in its place

#40

Post by cr0sh »

otakucode wrote: post #24
monocasa wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Socrates went into a similar rant on the written word in general. > [Writing] will create forgetfulness in the learners’ souls, because they will not use their memories; they will trust to the external written characters and not remember of themselves. The specific which you have discovered is an aid not to memory, but to reminiscence, and you give your disciples not truth, but only the semblance of truth; they will…

John Philip Souza said that recorded music would destroy music, as amateur musicians would be so disheartened by hearing the performances of virtuosos that they would feel any practice would be futile. He also described a person listening to music by themselves as a sort of craven masturbation, using great imagery to have people imagine an emaciated antisocial hollow person curled up next to a phonograph. Next up: VR…

> using great imagery to have people imagine an emaciated antisocial hollow person curled up next to a phonograph.

http://i.imgur.com/7rPcaft.jpg

...somewhat apropos to your final sentence.

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