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Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

buildzoom.com

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Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#31
post #16
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can telecommute a lot, I recommend Maryland b/w D.C. and Annapolis. You can get a 4BR house for what a 1BR apartment costs in D.C., you can be at a farm in 20 minutes in one direction and a downtown bar in 10 minutes in the other, and I've got two different fiber providers available (I'm getting 2-gig installed soon). Unfortunately, the tech scene in the DMV area seems to be mostly in northern Virginia, which…

Northern Virginia has very low unemployment and high paying jobs. The area also has all 4 seasons fairly balanced, zero significant natural disasters, plenty of rainfall to stay green in the summer etc. Granted, you may not like that tradeoff, but it has a lot going for it. Sure I moved to MD due to my current job, but I am seriously considering moving back.

And some of the best public school systems in the country.

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#32
hey, i'm looking to buy a small plot of land and build a house on it in the next few years. my goal is to be able to have land and a house of my own without taking a loan, or a very big one at least. ive been looking at land in northern california and there seems to be a lot of promising deals. lake county california seems to be a pretty good spot.

if anyone has experience with buying land to settle on, in northern california or otherwise, i would be eternally grateful for advice and tips. in fact, i would greatly appreciate any advice or tips regarding anything that has to do with buying land, building a house, or owning property and a house.

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#33
i once managed the product that calculated the cost basis for your property tax bill in most US counties & states (and some international jurisdictions), and it was common knowledge there that home prices were disconnected from construction costs.

construction cost relative to home prices is interesting to a company like buildzoom because they're in the construction business (and finding the coming construction booms is important to them), but if you want to understand home price inflation, it's not that interesting at all. shiller, of case-shiller fame, also showed that home prices are disconnected from construction costs in his book irrational exhuberance.

in a stable economy, you'd expect home prices to roughly follow GDP or inflation, not building cost. if you graphed median home prices against GDP, you'd literally see the bubble (between median home price and GDP) starting to form in the 80's and popping in 2008.

why? financial engineering--we turned homes from places to live into investments. greed fueled home price inflation. and real estate investment was accessible to the average american, unlike more complex financial instruments like bonds or derivatives. in classic bubble fashion, people knew (and still know) that prices are irrational, but we all think we can make a boatload and get out before the bubble pops (again).

but these are homes we're talking about, not some abstract concept like a futures contract on the production of black-eyed peas. these are not simple commodities that we can easily replace with a substitute. it's where we live.

and yet, we continue to allow financiers and investors to extract wealth through higher rents (now nearing 50% for many residents of big cities), regulatory capture, and collaterized debt (the risk on which is passed to taxpayers). but "everyone else is doing it" so it's ok, right?

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ll see how long Washington can maintain its income-tax free environment [1]. 1. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-c...

Except this law violates various state laws, as well as the state constitution, so it will be struck down upon judicial review.

Those facts are not an exception to "we'll see"

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in Wilsonville, moved from Seattle (but I grew up in Portland). One thing that WA has over OR is no income tax. I’d gladly have sales tax again to not pay the income tax.

We’ll see how long Washington can maintain its income-tax free environment [1]. 1. https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-c...

> “Whoever goes against this is openly causing suffering,” she said.

This quote really stands out to me. Is this demonization of opposing viewpoints a new thing, or am I just noticing it more in the last two years?

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#36

Would like to say: If you would like to reverse these trends, or live in the SFBA and would like to be able to afford a home or condo without needing to commute from Stockton or hit the startup lottery, please pay attention to your local City Council and their zoning/land use decisions. Local decisions frequently don't get that many comments; your voice makes a difference. - Brisbane may approve 4400 units of housing…

Will building more units / appartments/ houses bring the price down?

Have other cities seen home prices move toward affordability when more housing has been built?

I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, just that the logic seems flawed.

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#37

Would like to say: If you would like to reverse these trends, or live in the SFBA and would like to be able to afford a home or condo without needing to commute from Stockton or hit the startup lottery, please pay attention to your local City Council and their zoning/land use decisions. Local decisions frequently don't get that many comments; your voice makes a difference. - Brisbane may approve 4400 units of housing…

Will building more units / appartments/ houses bring the price down? Have other cities seen home prices move toward affordability when more housing has been built? I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, just that the logic seems flawed.

I'm not up on the sources, but a moderately pro-development candidate for Cambridge City Council has often quoted a statistic saying that there are only two ways to bring down house prices:

1. Make the city suck

2. Get the housing vacancy rate to 5.5%

And of course he says this to encourage everyone to work toward #2, and the way to do that without displacing anyone is to build new housing.

I don't really understand the opposite logic, which the NIMBYs like to use, saying that building new housing will drive the price up.

I mean, I am not some kind of libertarian free-market cheerleader, but it shouldn't be that controversial to say that a market exists, that the way to bring down the price in the face of overwhelming demand is with supply.

People point to how expensive newly-built market-rate housing is, but that's a symptom of the shortage. People want to live in good cities. If there's not a new home for them, they'll pay even more for a home someone lives in, so prices go up and a community gets displaced.

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#38

Would like to say: If you would like to reverse these trends, or live in the SFBA and would like to be able to afford a home or condo without needing to commute from Stockton or hit the startup lottery, please pay attention to your local City Council and their zoning/land use decisions. Local decisions frequently don't get that many comments; your voice makes a difference. - Brisbane may approve 4400 units of housing…

Will building more units / appartments/ houses bring the price down? Have other cities seen home prices move toward affordability when more housing has been built? I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, just that the logic seems flawed.

> Will building more units / appartments/ houses bring the price down?

Ballooning housing prices are a prime example of demand exceeding supply leading to increased prices. Increasing supply will decrease prices or at least limit further price increase.

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#39

Would like to say: If you would like to reverse these trends, or live in the SFBA and would like to be able to afford a home or condo without needing to commute from Stockton or hit the startup lottery, please pay attention to your local City Council and their zoning/land use decisions. Local decisions frequently don't get that many comments; your voice makes a difference. - Brisbane may approve 4400 units of housing…

Will building more units / appartments/ houses bring the price down? Have other cities seen home prices move toward affordability when more housing has been built? I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, just that the logic seems flawed.

Broadly, yes, for the same reasons that destroying housing (as happened in Santa Rosa) increases competition for existing apartments and increases rents. Here's a report from the state LAO about the effects of building more housing on displacement: http://www.lao.ca.gov/Publications/Report/3345

In 2016 SF built 5,000 units, a record, and rents and owner move-in evictions both fell for the first time in a while. (They are not going to repeat that production in 2017 or 2018, in large part due to Prop C).

Across all 50 states, areas where population growth exceeded housing supply growth saw price increases: https://twitter.com/lenkiefer/status/871785655164182529

Austin, Houston, and Dallas don't have very restrictive zoning or rules around new home construction, and they lap California in home building and have seen rents hardly rise at all.

Re: Paying for Dirt: Where Have Home Values Detached from Construction Costs?

#40
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will building more units / appartments/ houses bring the price down? Have other cities seen home prices move toward affordability when more housing has been built? I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, just that the logic seems flawed.

> Will building more units / appartments/ houses bring the price down? Ballooning housing prices are a prime example of demand exceeding supply leading to increased prices. Increasing supply will decrease prices or at least limit further price increase.

But it's not like demand is inelastic.

Do we know how much additional supply would have to be built to saturate demand? Is that even freasible?

It seems like an intractable problem to me because it's not like anything we do, in these big popular cities, is going to have much of an effect in the next 12 months to 5 years.

Personally, I solved the problem for myself by moving away from the big city I was in to a sub 100k population centre. There's no way I was going to be able to afford to buy a place within an hours drive of where I worked, not in the foreseeable future.

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