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Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

bloomberg.com

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Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#31

Post by mantas »

ricardobeat wrote: post #24
B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a luxury for the rich Parents of children under 12 should also be given a pass. (Unless outsourcing the population is a deliberate tactic, of course.)

Kids can walk, when not young enough for a trolley. My 5-year old just cycled 4km with me this weekend.

Kids can not only walk, but walk alone too. I was going to elementary school on my own when I was 7. So did my classmates. I used to cycle all around by the age of 10.

It sucks that today youngsters are treated as dumb. Even though the world is getting safer and safer.

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#32

Post by crdb »

sho wrote: post #5

I think that many asian cities have the right approach here. Treat cars as a luxury good in a space-challenged context and tax them heavily, while making sure to provide a world class public transport system so as to guarantee no-one actually needs a car. While it doesn't have a COE, tokyo does basically the same thing. You will have to pay $50k upfront for a 10-year car permit in singapore. In Tokyo there's no upfro…

> Treat cars as a luxury good

It's subtly different. The core idea is that car ownership has externalities and the implementation of solving these externalities is to limit absolute numbers and let the market decide what use to make of the quota. Luxury ownership is just one of many uses competing. Uber recently pushed prices up a bit [1] as it bought itself a rental fleet for its subsidiary Lion City Rentals; the ROI on these cars is worth more to Uber than what a citizen is prepared to pay to own a car.

A parallel might be real estate. Yes, you could run a warehouse in Wall Street, but even if you get the permits from the local planning association, you'll be outbid by the investment banks. There is even an example of "luxury" Wall Street real estate in the form of 23 Wall Street [2] which was "purposely designed to be only four stories tall" whilst surrounded by skyscrapers.

It is worth noting that the Singapore government actively works to reduce demand for cars, by increasing the quality and extent of public transport, making it accessible to all, and regulating the taxi and delivery industries carefully to enable them to be cheap and easily available. A COE-type scheme introduced in a city without high quality alternatives (such as Sydney or Los Angeles) would cause the immediate fall of the government responsible and a policy reversal from the newly elected replacement.

[1] http://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/transport/uber-bids-co...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/23_Wall_Street aka the "House of Morgan"

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#33

Post by [deleted] »

darklajid wrote: post #18
crdb wrote: post #16

Lee Kuan Yew actually thought, almost a decade ago, that he didn't go far enough: “I knew that once people in Singapore could have a car, they’d never give it up. So, before it got out of control, I said you need a Certificate Of Entitlement before a car is yours; and the permitted up-tick in number of cars depends on what the road capacity is. That was the first move. So, you bid for it. If you issue more entitlemen…

Random anecdote: I commute by MRT. I guess my average wait time is around three to max five minutes on the platform. I'm used to public transportation from Germany, but SG's transportation is so much better and very affordable on top. Cabs, Grab and (no clue, never used it myself) Uber are cheap when you need an alternative. I had a car for most of my life in Germany, don't miss it a single bit in SG.

[deleted]

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#34

Post by krtkush »

mantas wrote: post #31
ricardobeat wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids can walk, when not young enough for a trolley. My 5-year old just cycled 4km with me this weekend.

Kids can not only walk, but walk alone too. I was going to elementary school on my own when I was 7. So did my classmates. I used to cycle all around by the age of 10. It sucks that today youngsters are treated as dumb. Even though the world is getting safer and safer.

Relevant - https://www.cbsnews.com/news/japanese-young-children-solo-co...

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#35

Post by swyx »

csomar wrote: post #7

It is important to note that Singapore/HongKong have world class, reliable and reachable public transport. The MTR is heavenly. The population is concentrated in big, tall buildings. Not quite the "lifestyle" but I can see why banning cars is important here. Given that the standard of living is high, pretty much everyone will be able to afford cars if they cost the real market price. This will make movement impossibl…

limiting, not banning.

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#36

Post by slackingoff2017 »

sho wrote: post #5

I think that many asian cities have the right approach here. Treat cars as a luxury good in a space-challenged context and tax them heavily, while making sure to provide a world class public transport system so as to guarantee no-one actually needs a car. While it doesn't have a COE, tokyo does basically the same thing. You will have to pay $50k upfront for a 10-year car permit in singapore. In Tokyo there's no upfro…

People will resist giving up cars in areas with crappy weather, but I could see this working in many US cities west/south currently choked with traffic.

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#37

Post by swyx »

mc32 wrote: post #3

I think it's overall a good move, given 12% of their land is used up by transport networks and it's a tiny island. That said, if space is a real constraint, I think they could make a deal with Malaysia, if they really needed to, but I think their independent streak is too strong to allow that thought --they once were part of it, pre-independence. On the other hand there are "autonomous" regions out there. The questio…

its like a bad breakup. Singapore and Malaysia were married, got into a huge fight, separated, and after living happily as neighbors for 50 years you want them to make a deal to cohabitate again?

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#38

Post by orless »

lhopki01 wrote: post #28
B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a luxury for the rich Parents of children under 12 should also be given a pass. (Unless outsourcing the population is a deliberate tactic, of course.)

What exactly is it about children under the age of 12 that requires a car?

I'm a father of two boys (8 and 5 yo) and we live in a small village (Ober-Erlenbach) next to a sattelite city (Bad Homburg) close to a big city (Frankfurt). We could not get along without a car (actually we own two cars).

The younger child goes to a kindergarten on the opposite end of Bad Homburg. That's 40 minutes with the bus one direction. No, there was no option of a kindergarten closer to our house. There was no option at all, you just take it where you get place.

The younger child has an illness and we have to bring him to a therapy at least once a week. That's in a hospital in another sattelite city on the opposite end of Frankfurt. Two hours with bus one direction.

The older child has allergy treatment in another hospital in Frankfurt. One and a quater an hour with public transport.

And these are just a few examples.

Without a car my wife would probably have to stay home just to manage children.

To answer your question - children introduce spatial responsibilities we you can't typically efficiently manage without a car.

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#39

Post by slackingoff2017 »

B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #15
sho wrote: post #5

I think that many asian cities have the right approach here. Treat cars as a luxury good in a space-challenged context and tax them heavily, while making sure to provide a world class public transport system so as to guarantee no-one actually needs a car. While it doesn't have a COE, tokyo does basically the same thing. You will have to pay $50k upfront for a 10-year car permit in singapore. In Tokyo there's no upfro…

> a luxury for the rich Parents of children under 12 should also be given a pass. (Unless outsourcing the population is a deliberate tactic, of course.)

I used to live on the east coast and saw kids riding the subway all the time. It's no different than taking them into a store.

A bonus of public transport is that you can let your kids do whatever once they hit 13. There's always a few awkward years where they can basically care for themselves but can't drive.

Today's parents are way too paranoid. My mom grew up in the country and back then all the kids were driving by 12 even in town. I think modern age limits are more about making sure you can get charges to stick in court than a safety issue

Re: Singapore to Stop Adding Cars in February 2018

#40

Post by orless »

ricardobeat wrote: post #24
B1FF_PSUVM wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a luxury for the rich Parents of children under 12 should also be given a pass. (Unless outsourcing the population is a deliberate tactic, of course.)

Kids can walk, when not young enough for a trolley. My 5-year old just cycled 4km with me this weekend.

My 5yo goes to a kindergarten which is 7km away. I'm sure he'll be delighted to walk that distance. Five days a week.
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