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Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

nytimes.com

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Re: Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

#31

Post by guitarbill »

sciurus wrote: post #20
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #18

Boy scouts in the past was more about camping and activities. It was about self-improvement and learning how to be men. Now that purpose seems to be weakening. Men and women are different, both physically and psychologically[1]. Acting like those differences don't exist hurts everyone IMO. Sure, we should be accepting of aberrations from the norm, but that doesn't mean we should hurt the majority in the process. [1]…

What is it that Boy Scouts teaches that you don't think girls should be taught?

Maybe it isn't about what's being taught, but acknowledging that boys will behave differently when girls are present. So then an environment where no girls are present can be an opportunity to engage with teenage boys in a different context, which I do think is important to provide some kind of mentorship or guidance that isn't possible in a mixed environment. There aren't many situations where this is still the case, and getting rid of all such opportunities for the sake of inclusivity might be missing the point, and do more damage than good.

Re: Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

#32

Post by maruhan2 »

kd5bjo wrote: post #26
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it simply reinforces gender stereotypes I have a serious question, and this arises from my mentality that we should be accepting of aberrations from the norm, but that doesn't mean we should hurt the majority in the process. Why are gender stereotypes bad? If we understand that men and women are different overall, and that those differences lead to a bimodal distribution with gender traits something like this[1], t…

Gender stereotypes, when applied to individuals instead of large populations, severely punish anyone that falls on the "wrong" side of the median.

Yup I agree with this. People who are not in the norm will struggle moving forward because they'll always be judged by the cover.

There's also the non-scientific stereotypes. "Girls are worse at math" for example.

Re: Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

#33

Post by skissane »

Many other countries already have gender-integrated scouting, so the BSA is just following in the footsteps of much of the rest of the world. Here in Australia, Scouts have accepted girls for decades, although there is still a separate girls-only Girl Guides organisation (equivalent to Girl Scouts). Anecdotally, many girls prefer Scouts to Guides. I think if you give young people the choice between gender-integrated or gender-segregated activities, most will prefer the former, especially once they reach a certain age. It varies from individual group to individual group, but as a generalisation, Scouts tends to put greater emphasis on outdoor activities than Guides, and some girls find that greater emphasis appealing. From a parent's viewpoint, if you have children of both genders, then being able to put them all in the same program can have its logistical advantages.

Re: Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

#34

Post by ajhurliman »

craftkiller wrote: post #27
SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #9

Putting aside the context of whether this makes sense with the existence of Girl Scouts, as an Eagle Scout I’m pretty happy that the organization has made strides to turn around its image of exclusivity. It’s certainly about 15 years later than it needed to be, but such a huge organization that is dedicated to inspiring ideals in young people should be sending the right message. It’s a far cry from the early 2000’s e…

Make no mistake, they were asking if you believed in "God". The BSA prohibits atheists / agnostics [1] My troop told me to lie. I chose to not participate. [1] https://web.archive.org/web/20080509074048/http://www.bsaleg...

Literally any belief system as long as it's not atheist/ agnostic. It just blows my mind that people draw the line there.

Re: Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

#35

Post by photojosh »

alehul wrote: post #22
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that I don't think girls shouldn't be taught certain information, but it's rather a mindset that is taught. A group of boys being led by men can learn a mindset better suited for the mind of a man. With their greater testosterone, men have much more aggression an desire for status overall than women, and with guidance by a father figure, can learn to harness and focus that energy in a way a woman wouldn't be…

I agree with you on a scientific level, for example, that men have more testosterone and thus are more likely to be aggressive in their pursuits, which is often critical to success. At the same time, however, there are many men who are less aggressive and women who are more aggressive; broad averages aren't the perfect solution. Couldn't we promote this 'aggressive' ideology as genderless? As long as we're clear abou…

This is the right answer. The GP comment made me angry with its absolute generalisation about "the mind of a man." Being a non-aggresive guy sucked growing up when you get bullied for not meeting this gender stereotype for males.

I also really enjoy outdoor adventuring, like many of the activities provided by Scouts. Is it because I'm aggressive? No, it's because I enjoy the calm and serenity that the outdoors provides.

Re: Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

#38

Post by kevinconroy »

MR4D wrote: post #3

This is sad. Not that they accept girls, but that the Girl Scouts apparently suck so much at understanding their audience. Fallout from this would probably result in either 1) the Girl Scouts becoming much better at satisfying their target audience or 2) the Girl Scouts essentially becoming an irrelevant organization. I hope the first, but the latter looks more likely. They’ve hidden behind cookie sales for years, an…

Where did you get the impression that Girl Scouts "suck so much at understanding their audience"?

I'm fairly angry that someone would read that article and assume that if Boy Scouts decided to admit girls to help offset the decreasing memberships in Boy Scouts (noted in the article), that somehow that means Girl Scouts is to blame.

SERIOUSLY? This is exactly the kind of sexism that girls have to deal with day in and day out.

As someone who was a Boy Scout growing up, and now as a Girl Scout leader and Cub Scout leader, I find the Girl Scouts to be a much better run organization that provides a range of helpful, useful skills.

I'm in favor of letting girls and boys participate in these activities and having equal access to whichever experience is best for them. So far, the Girl Scouts have done an amazing job at making me feel welcome as an adult male leader and giving me the tools that I need to support the girls in my troop. They know what they are doing, they know how to create girl-oriented programming, and they are training the next generation of female leaders.

My rage as the apparent sexism aside, I also think that an individual scout's experience (girl or boy) will depend heavily on the adult leadership in their location (both district, troop/pack, and den/group). It's truly a YMMV situation.

Re: Boy Scouts Announce They Will Accept Girls

#40

Post by op00to »

mikestew wrote: post #5
MR4D wrote: post #3

This is sad. Not that they accept girls, but that the Girl Scouts apparently suck so much at understanding their audience. Fallout from this would probably result in either 1) the Girl Scouts becoming much better at satisfying their target audience or 2) the Girl Scouts essentially becoming an irrelevant organization. I hope the first, but the latter looks more likely. They’ve hidden behind cookie sales for years, an…

They’ve hidden behind cookie sales for years, and outside that, I can’t tell you one thing that they do. You think Boy Scouts, you think Eagle scouts, tying knots, and camping. Outdoorsy, can-do, and always prepared. The animal shelter at which I volunteer has benefitted from the multiple Eagle Scout projects that built needed equipment for us. You think Girl Scouts, you think Thin Mints. A Girl Scout could have buil…

When I think of Boy Scout leadership, I think of religious loonies who have an irrational fear of gay and transgendered scouts and leaders.
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