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Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

theregister.co.uk

31–40 of 67 posts

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#31
post #17

The nature this case in relation to how it is being reported fascinates me. Let me summarize while making a few observations: 1. A guy comes out of nowhere and files a lawsuit in a state court in Allegany County, New York (population: about 50,000 - http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/36003.html ). 2. The lawsuit is filed on June 30, 2010 and consists of a grand total of 2 pages of allegations, coupled with a…

I disagree with the general premise of your argument that he was preyed upon. At the time Mark's company was making zero dollars. It was a high risk investment and the investor knew it.

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#32

Why would a Harvard student give up 50%+ of ownership for a mere $1000?

Also, why didn't he resolve the situation by either starting a new company or buying back his shares as soon as it was apparent Facebook could become something big?

No corporation or shares existed at the time the work for hire was done....

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#33
post #24
post #17

The nature this case in relation to how it is being reported fascinates me. Let me summarize while making a few observations: 1. A guy comes out of nowhere and files a lawsuit in a state court in Allegany County, New York (population: about 50,000 - http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/36003.html ). 2. The lawsuit is filed on June 30, 2010 and consists of a grand total of 2 pages of allegations, coupled with a…

While I think you're probably absolutely correct from a legal perspective, I also think that you're missing the point. This is interesting precisely because the contract is so amateurish, yet it appears that Zuckerberg actually signed the damned thing! As bizarre and weak as the claims may be to a lawyer, to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings early in Faceb…

to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings

Really? Perhaps to the sort of layman who's already quite convinced 'shady dealings' took place. If someone got some college kid to sign an unenforceable (and certainly ridiculously unfair, from an ethical, if not legal standpoint) contract, how is that evidence of 'shady dealings', rather than inexperience and naivete?

The whole thing seems completely preposterous, I think to anyone who's entered a contract or two. It's hard to imagine the 'everyone' who would take this contract at face value, at least, not the subset of everyone who's ever signed a lease, mortgage or employment agreement and/or has had the most passing consultation with a lawyer about one. The fact that someone with professional legal expertise feels the whole thing is likely preposterous makes it more, not less likely that is the case. To suggest otherwise is to possess an oddly conspiratorial turn of mind.

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#34
post #33
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think you're probably absolutely correct from a legal perspective, I also think that you're missing the point. This is interesting precisely because the contract is so amateurish, yet it appears that Zuckerberg actually signed the damned thing! As bizarre and weak as the claims may be to a lawyer, to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings early in Faceb…

to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings Really? Perhaps to the sort of layman who's already quite convinced 'shady dealings' took place. If someone got some college kid to sign an unenforceable (and certainly ridiculously unfair, from an ethical, if not legal standpoint) contract, how is that evidence of 'shady dealings', rather than inexperience and naivete?…

Any item of litigation will resolve itself based on two major factors: (1) legal technicalities; and (2) what I call "motivating factors."

I upvoted irq11's comment, though I disagree with the conclusion, for flagging this important distinction.

Any lawyer who assesses a case purely on legal technicalities will likely get caught short because all concerned at a trial (judge and jury) will normally be taking a wider view of the case based on their sense of what really happened between the parties, regardless of legal technicalities. If they see someone as a liar, a jerk, a schemer, a shark, or whatever, they will be highly "motivated" to find against that party so long as the law gives them any hook upon which to do so.

That said, my own view tends to align with yours (pvg). As I see it, this thing has "shark" written all over it, and the shark here will likely be seen to be Mr. Ceglia (both because of the heavily lopsided contract terms and because he is opportunistically trying to sandbag FB's shareholders - who clearly are innocent even if Mr. Zuckerberg is not - after lying in wait for many years, a dirty shot by any measure). I could be wrong on this, of course, but I would be quite surprised in this sort of case if someone who did what Mr. Ceglia did here would be viewed sympathetically at any phase of this court proceeding. In other words, I would say that the "motivating factors" for this case would tilt in favor of Mr. Zuckerberg (and Facebook) from the facts revealed so far. Reasonable minds might differ on this (with respect to Mr. Zuckerberg only), and other facts might later be revealed to alter this conclusion, but that is how I see it so far.

Of course, there is no accounting for how people might choose to see this outside of court but I think this tends to confirm my point that many people simply have a desire to see Mr. Zuckerberg get his comeuppance and that is why the reporting comes out the way it does as well.

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#35
post #33
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think you're probably absolutely correct from a legal perspective, I also think that you're missing the point. This is interesting precisely because the contract is so amateurish, yet it appears that Zuckerberg actually signed the damned thing! As bizarre and weak as the claims may be to a lawyer, to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings early in Faceb…

to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings Really? Perhaps to the sort of layman who's already quite convinced 'shady dealings' took place. If someone got some college kid to sign an unenforceable (and certainly ridiculously unfair, from an ethical, if not legal standpoint) contract, how is that evidence of 'shady dealings', rather than inexperience and naivete?…

Your position is as biased as any other -- you're just choosing to focus on Zuckerberg's age, and consequently assume that he was victimized. Perhaps that's true, perhaps not.

When I look at this, I see an incredibly unsophisticated legal agreement. The author of the contract hardly strikes me as a knowledgable player, and I'm not inclined to assume that he ever had the upper hand in a battle of wits with Zuckerberg. In any case, the fact that a contract is poorly written doesn't automatically make me disregard it's intent, and here the intent of the contract is so clear that even Mark Zuckerberg -- innocent babe that he was -- could have understood it.

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#36
post #23

I actually found the last line: Facebook paid [ConnectU] $65m to go away. to be the most interesting. I don't follow the Facebook story very closely, but I had no idea that much money changed hands over the ConnectU thing.

So you never followed the story very closely, but are suprised by some of the facts in the story? I never really read much physics, but was surprised to learn that Gravity = 9.8m/s/s. Does that make much sense?

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#38
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings Really? Perhaps to the sort of layman who's already quite convinced 'shady dealings' took place. If someone got some college kid to sign an unenforceable (and certainly ridiculously unfair, from an ethical, if not legal standpoint) contract, how is that evidence of 'shady dealings', rather than inexperience and naivete?…

Your position is as biased as any other -- you're just choosing to focus on Zuckerberg's age, and consequently assume that he was victimized. Perhaps that's true, perhaps not. When I look at this, I see an incredibly unsophisticated legal agreement. The author of the contract hardly strikes me as a knowledgable player, and I'm not inclined to assume that he ever had the upper hand in a battle of wits with Zuckerberg.…

Right but it's exactly the intent that seems almost predatory, however legally unsophisticated it is. Let's assume, as seems reasonable, that both parties were fairly clueless and acting without the benefit of good professional advice. When you read the contract, doesn't the stuff Ceglia is asking for seem kind of nuts? And not in any technical legal sense, just in general.

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#39
post #24
post #17

The nature this case in relation to how it is being reported fascinates me. Let me summarize while making a few observations: 1. A guy comes out of nowhere and files a lawsuit in a state court in Allegany County, New York (population: about 50,000 - http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/36003.html ). 2. The lawsuit is filed on June 30, 2010 and consists of a grand total of 2 pages of allegations, coupled with a…

While I think you're probably absolutely correct from a legal perspective, I also think that you're missing the point. This is interesting precisely because the contract is so amateurish, yet it appears that Zuckerberg actually signed the damned thing! As bizarre and weak as the claims may be to a lawyer, to a layman, this is the clearest evidence yet that Zuckerberg was involved in some shady dealings early in Faceb…

pg: "A lot of startups have some kind of secret about the subterfuges they had to resort to in the early days..."

http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html

Re: Zuckerberg admits working for man claiming Facebook ownership

#40
post #17

The nature this case in relation to how it is being reported fascinates me. Let me summarize while making a few observations: 1. A guy comes out of nowhere and files a lawsuit in a state court in Allegany County, New York (population: about 50,000 - http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/36/36003.html ). 2. The lawsuit is filed on June 30, 2010 and consists of a grand total of 2 pages of allegations, coupled with a…

Well I'm not a lawyer, but from a complete laymans point of view I'm not sure I agree with all your points. I don't expect my opinion to be worth a lot to anyone, but I still think there are a lot of questions I'd want answered if I was financially invested in facebook.

Firstly the contract is only a couple of pages long and the point about owning 50% of thefacebook is right there in the first paragraph. It might seem ridiculous now that thefacebook was only valued by them at $2000 at that time, but thats only in hindsight. And at a valuation of $2000 1% a day is only $20 a day as a late penalty.

No idea about the timing issues, but if the guy thought the deal was successfully completed (afterall he paid Zuckerberg, we have no idea if he cashed that cheque) then as far as he was concerned all was fine and he owned 84% of the business. I don't see how a problem arose until Zuckerberg incorporated and didn't give this guy his fair share - and that happened in summer 2004 (according to wikipedia).

As for the unreasonableness of it all, Zuckerberg obviously needed the money at the time and thought that's what thefacebook was worth at the time. Arguably facebook wouldn't be in the position it is now without that guy's money. Maybe he's only entitled to 84% of Zuckerberg's personal share, but thats still pretty significant. Who knows, it might all be a forgery, but it doesn't seem that frivolous to me anyway.

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