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Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

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Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#31
post #4

A good article that covers what Keybase is, where they came from, what they try to do, and where they're trying to go -- although you couldn't tell from the headline. As in the article body, Slack is namedropped just for effect; Keybase Teams being a decent proof-of-concept of a popular kind of application to show that the ideas behind Keybase can be used to build real products. That being said, Keybase has been movi…

When we started Keybase, it was a hobby project to address shortcomings of PGP. Max and I both had just downloaded software packages and wanted to verify them, and it took us hours. At least one of them was bitcoin; I recall staring in awe as Max showed me the countless Gavin Andresen impostors on the popular PGP key servers.

We really thought we'd stick up the Keybase directory, make some basic scripts, and move on.

Upon further review and growing popularity, we realized we'd hit a nerve but only solved one of 3 problems related to public key infrastructure.

(1) the identity problem; this means think of a PERSON, and end up with a key. This really is what started Keybase. It was made possible because of how identity has changed in recent years. Whether you're following a famous developer or you're looking up your own sibling, odds are in 2017 you know a public definition of them: a Twitter account, Reddit account, Facebook, etc.

When attacking point 1, we made it a lot more than just posting a fingerprint. We needed these proofs to be bidirectional. It's not just that you should be able to start with a Twitter account and get a key; you should be able to start with a signed statement and end up on the Twitter account. We also attacked revocation and other issues.

But really, there were 2 big missing pieces:

(2) multi-device key management; the OLD shitty story was having one private key that you moved around from device to device. This was never an acceptable solution for most people. What the heck is a private key? How do I move it around? What if just one of my devices is compromised? And so on.

In 2015 when we decided to commit to Keybase, smartphones were poised to solve this. They solved this by guaranteeing that whatever 2 devices you have, you can always bring them together. So you should never have to move a private key around again. In the mobile era, you can bring 2 devices together and declare they're both you. Technically, underneath the surface, device #2 generates its own key pair, and device 1 signs the new public key, and device 2 countersigns this, and all this goes into an immutable chain (by signing the hash of the last identity change).

This means you don't need to understand what a key pair even is. It feels roughly the same as when your bank tells you to grab your phone in order to log in.

And if you have a compromised device, your identity isn't destroyed.

This was the 2nd thing we wanted to tackle.

Finally, to address your point, number 3.

(3) all the GUIs around PKI really kind of sucked. There were some standalone chat apps that were good, but nothing that got people building a real graph of keys and identities, so they can do whatever else they wanted. For a PKI to work, people needed usable software on every platform. And it couldn't be constrained to people in your phone book, where you needed to securely exchange a phone number first.

We think the basics of a usable PKI are:

   (1) to know who you're talking to (and to trust teams)
   (2) to be able to share data, securely, on any platform

If Keybase offered that, whether or not it felt like a "Slack-killer," you could secure all the other aspects of your life. Everyone uses different crypto powered apps now: SSH, IPFS, Signal, bitcoin, ethereum, etc., and it's so annoying to get started. Keybase actually makes all of them easier, because you can think of a person and talk to them about it. Then you can move on to transferring that cryptocurrency, accepting that server fingerprint, establishing that OTR chat (and checking security codes without meeting in person), etc.

We really felt that only by solving all 3 problems would a general PKI ever take off.

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#32

> Two veteran entrepreneurs are running a little startup built around making it easy to build web and mobile applications from day one that make data impossible for a digital trespasser to read. In fact, it encrypts data in such a way that even if you use some company’s service, that company can’t see what you’re doing with it. Is it? Not that I'm questioning Keybase, I just had no idea they were offering some type o…

I'm new with it myself, but I think part of what's being described is the option you have, when you have a Keybase account and the Keybase browser plugin and you're logged into a third party system (such as Fbook), of clicking on a Keybase icon for a given user and sending an e2e encrypted message from your Keybase account to theirs (even where they don't have one yet--if they make one later and associate it with their account on the third-party service, they will then unlock access to the message).

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#33
post #19

They don't really address the fact that every single Slack "leak" is from someone already part of the team taking screenshots of the conversation. How does any kind of encryption help that? Also doesn't mention everything you lose out on with this approach - like searching through message history. It's a neat product I guess, but mentioning Slack in every single line seems more to get eyeballs than a valid comparison…

> like searching through message history

You can do this[0]

I'm personally rooting for them - e2ee group chat is a common request I get

[0] https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#34
post #19

They don't really address the fact that every single Slack "leak" is from someone already part of the team taking screenshots of the conversation. How does any kind of encryption help that? Also doesn't mention everything you lose out on with this approach - like searching through message history. It's a neat product I guess, but mentioning Slack in every single line seems more to get eyeballs than a valid comparison…

Search could be done locally if the client downloads the whole message history. I don't know enough about how Teams works to know if that's actually something a client can do right now, but it should at least be technically possible.

Another alternative is simply running a bot that indexes everything and provides search. You can run the bot in-house so you keep control over your data.

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#35
post #18

If there's anyone working on an Open Source Slack (or Keybase) alternative, hit me up. I run a UI design agency and we'd love to help design a better interface for an open solution that we and others can use. Find my details in my profile, or go to http://fairpixels.pro

I think I heard that the matrix people are looking for ux/ui people to improve Riot. https://matrix.org

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#36
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always save the keys (or the scanner code) whenever you add them to Authenticator. Then, when you get a new phone (or whatever) you can just re-import the keys.

It's pretty stupid that Google doesn't allow for any way of getting the keys out of it's 2FA app. Your only transition path is backup/restoring an entire device to a newer one of the same OS. There's no direct path to migrate from say an iPhone to an Android based phone without manually adding each 2FA entry to the new device.

I agree this is SHOCKINGLY not consumer ready. Considering all the shaming I see every hack about 2fa I expected it to be pretty streamlined.

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#37
post #4

A good article that covers what Keybase is, where they came from, what they try to do, and where they're trying to go -- although you couldn't tell from the headline. As in the article body, Slack is namedropped just for effect; Keybase Teams being a decent proof-of-concept of a popular kind of application to show that the ideas behind Keybase can be used to build real products. That being said, Keybase has been movi…

I wonder if, in the mid term future, you could see e2e encryption over slack and other offerings if you added slack as a team member—granted, they’d be storing the messages plain text on the slack side, but it’d ease and encourage transition onto keybase teams rather than eg SAML.

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#38
post #5

Tangent, but the article mentions using Google Authenticator -- I was going to start using that recently, but the reviews indicated it had some really big problems with restoring when you get a new phone etc and Google isn't really maintaining it. https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/google-authenticator/id38849... Can anyone comment on their 2fa approach to google?

Google Authenticator is really just TOTP. My preferred approach is to use 1Password, which handles TOTP codes just fine.

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#39
post #33
post #19

They don't really address the fact that every single Slack "leak" is from someone already part of the team taking screenshots of the conversation. How does any kind of encryption help that? Also doesn't mention everything you lose out on with this approach - like searching through message history. It's a neat product I guess, but mentioning Slack in every single line seems more to get eyeballs than a valid comparison…

> like searching through message history You can do this[0] I'm personally rooting for them - e2ee group chat is a common request I get [0] https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf

What is e2ee; everyone to everyone else?

What does that mean, if so..

Re: Keybase's mission is to make encryption mainstream

#40
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like searching through message history You can do this[0] I'm personally rooting for them - e2ee group chat is a common request I get [0] https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/papers/se.pdf

What is e2ee; everyone to everyone else? What does that mean, if so..

I'm guessing "end to end encrypted".
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