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Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

nytimes.com

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Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#31

Post by throw999890 »

pmarreck wrote: post #15
throw2016 wrote: post #10

Why is Nytimes so concerned about China while failing completely to put the spotlight on the burgeoning surveillance culture at home? Who is going to talk about draconian surveillance, secret courts, secret orders, gag orders and government officials empowered to violate your dignity and privacy by searching your phone and personal effects. Why is Snowden still in Russia? Are we to pretend all this is not happening?…

OBJECTION: Whataboutist Fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism In addition, making a claim from a fresh anonymous account conveys the message that you do not actually stand behind it, giving it zero credence.

Because your government now wants all our social media accounts. They will decide whether I should be a tourist or a criminal when I land. Just wow !

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#33

Post by [deleted] »

throw999890 wrote: post #29

Why is western media so concerned about China when their own government ramped up their control over their own people ? And hackernews mostly westerners going ga ga over this. You should be concerned about what’s happening at your home than what’s happening in some other country. Stop policing the world. There is a proverb, fix the dust in your eye before trying to fix the dirt in someone else’s.

[deleted]

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#34

Post by prklmn »

throw999890 wrote: post #29

Why is western media so concerned about China when their own government ramped up their control over their own people ? And hackernews mostly westerners going ga ga over this. You should be concerned about what’s happening at your home than what’s happening in some other country. Stop policing the world. There is a proverb, fix the dust in your eye before trying to fix the dirt in someone else’s.

Is our freedom of speech being censored online here? It's a good start that we can talk about this very subject.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#35

Post by throw2016 »

pmarreck wrote: post #15
throw2016 wrote: post #10

Why is Nytimes so concerned about China while failing completely to put the spotlight on the burgeoning surveillance culture at home? Who is going to talk about draconian surveillance, secret courts, secret orders, gag orders and government officials empowered to violate your dignity and privacy by searching your phone and personal effects. Why is Snowden still in Russia? Are we to pretend all this is not happening?…

OBJECTION: Whataboutist Fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism In addition, making a claim from a fresh anonymous account conveys the message that you do not actually stand behind it, giving it zero credence.

What does an anonymous account have to do with anything? Whataboutism cannot be used to coverup hypocrisy and perpetuate denial.

China is using a hammer, we do it much more slyly, harassing journalists at airports, creating lists, hounding whistle-blowers, de-legitimizing alternate voices and idea, have in-effect erected a total surveillance state and empowered government agents to ruffle through our personal stuff. What more needs to be done?

These are huge transgressions against the democratic ideal that the NYT and mainstream media don't lose sleep over but apparently we need to distract ourselves with China. This is a kind of denial, there is no moral high ground to pull this kind of thing off.

The chinese have no illusion about their government, but we are happy to defend ours while they trample our rights. A totalitarian would prefer our way.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#36

Post by paradite »

pmarreck wrote: post #15
throw2016 wrote: post #10

Why is Nytimes so concerned about China while failing completely to put the spotlight on the burgeoning surveillance culture at home? Who is going to talk about draconian surveillance, secret courts, secret orders, gag orders and government officials empowered to violate your dignity and privacy by searching your phone and personal effects. Why is Snowden still in Russia? Are we to pretend all this is not happening?…

OBJECTION: Whataboutist Fallacy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism In addition, making a claim from a fresh anonymous account conveys the message that you do not actually stand behind it, giving it zero credence.

> In addition, making a claim from a fresh anonymous account conveys the message that you do not actually stand behind it, giving it zero credence.

Let me do it instead then:

Why is Nytimes so concerned about China while failing completely to put the spotlight on the burgeoning surveillance culture at home?

Who is going to talk about draconian surveillance, secret courts, secret orders, gag orders and government officials empowered to violate your dignity and privacy by searching your phone and personal effects. Why is Snowden still in Russia? Are we to pretend all this is not happening?

All this is left to the EFF. This is a kind of denial and posturing - oh look how bad they are while looking the other way at the growing authoritarianism at home. Not even talking about the current censorship of alternative voices by Google, Facebook and others in support of mainstream media like the nyt with completely opaque and non transparent standards and lending credence to shadowy groups like propornot.

I have an account created 1284 days ago and linked to keybase.io, is it credible now?

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#37

Post by azag0 »

I've always told my parents who grew up in communist Czechoslovakia that the Chinese communism is a very different beast from the eastern-bloc communism they've know (which Vaclav Havel described masterfully in his texts). But this article would feel very familiar to them.

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#38

Post by malnourish »

rtuulik wrote: post #23
wiradikusuma wrote: post #5

I don't understand. == Stereotyping alert == At least in Malaysia and Singapore, even though there are a lot of Chinese (but not China national), "China girls" (from China) carries negative connotation. The reason is, many of them work in brothels, dodgy massage parlors, etc (you get the idea), and they're also known to "steal people's husbands" and being "gold diggers". In China itself, it's "common" for rich people…

Its totally unrelated. Like most issues with prostitution, it is simply caused by poverty. China is a very materialistic society with incredibly high inequality and it lacks any sort of welfare support network. If you just walk around in shanghai, then the country might seem pretty close to first world levels of development. But if you go deeper inland, you will find hundreds of millions rural people who have been le…

I would imagine that people choose sex work even if they are not destitute.

For example, look at the American porn industry or "high-end" call girl/escort scene. Often, it seems, these women (and men) come from means, or at the very least, not squalor.

Poor sex workers are of course more open to exploitation, but you would still find sex workers in developed nations with high social welfare (Australia, for example).

Re: Things You Cannot Say on China’s Internet

#39

Post by golergka »

jamesrcole wrote: post #6
golergka wrote: post #3

Every time an article that is politically critical of one of US's rivals is posted on HN, there is a lot of incoming comments about how US is just as bad. Which is perfectly reasonable and commendable - most HN readers live in US, and a good citizen is more concerned with problems in his own country than elsewhere. But it makes me wonder, what kind of justifications will this article get.

> a good citizen is more concerned with problems in his own country than elsewhere. In practical terms it's hard to be personally concerned equally as much about what happens in every country on earth, but as a matter of principle I think what happens to people is just as important regardless of where they are. And in our globalised world, what happens in one country, especially a major country, can have implications…

> as a matter of principle I think what happens to people is just as important regardless of where they are

Important to whom?

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